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Tanks, Planes and Warships don’t fit in tunnels, which is why the borders are closed.
True Dave, I suppose it’s a bit like them conveniently forgetting the Zionist’s hanging British Soldiers in the Orange Groves or bombing the ‘King Dave Hotel’ killing over 90 people – 28 British.
According to the ‘Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ 1,571 ‘Rockets’ were fired by Hamas from the Gaza Strip (Jan 2008 – Dec 2008) most of which were ‘Homemade’.
If you’ve going to attempt to justify this excessive use of military force by Israel at less have the decency to get your facts straight.
The figures I quoted are from the IDF – which also includes mortars – there is little difference between a rocket or mortar in the context of what is happening.
Anyway I don’t have to "justify" what Israel is doing to anybody – especially to those with closed minds.
True Dave, I suppose it’s a bit like them conveniently forgetting the Zionist’s hanging British Soldiers in the Orange Groves or bombing the ‘King Dave Hotel’ killing over 90 people – 28 British.
.. I always wondered what the difference was between a freedom fighter and a terrorist was, thanks for that Pete.
Tanks, Planes and Warships don’t fit in tunnels, which is why the borders are closed.
.. so in military terms we are talking about the Waffen SS versus unarmed Polish peasants, if we were to draw a comparison?
True Dave, I suppose it’s a bit like them conveniently forgetting the Zionist’s hanging British Soldiers in the Orange Groves or bombing the ‘King Dave Hotel’ killing over 90 people – 28 British.
The thread is really decending into near palsied stupidity now.
So Israel cannot defend its own people from attack because they bombed a hotel 50 years ago?
The palsied stupidity part kicked-off when some yahoo suggested that a nuclear bomb could be tactically deployed in Israel, without it having any impact on Palestinians.
And in case there are any simpletons reading this that do not understand the overall situation, no missiles would have been fired into Israel – and Hamas wouldn’t exist – if there wasn’t an illegal occupation of Palestinian land.
U N D E R S T A N D?
That which has been defined as "Occupied" by the International Court of Justice, Cav i.e. the Golan Heights, the West Bank and East Jerusalem – though obviously Gaza is now borderline again too.
It’s my opinion (rightly or wrongly) that the Israeli/Palestinian situation cannot be resolved, until the issue of the ‘Occupied Territories’ is addressed. Anything else that happens is Effect, not Cause…….imo, of course.
And apologies to Paul and Clivex for my use of the term "apologists" last night. It wasn’t really what I intended to convey, and it was a poor choice of word. "Supporters" would have been much closer to what I intended.
No problem Grasshopper, its good we can discuss differences without firing rockets at each other
The Palestinians had the land you mention but lost it after the failed Arab invasion of 1948, an invasion in the words of the Arab League secretary of the time "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre, which will be spoken of like the Mongoliam massacres and the Crusades."
The land was taken in an act of self defence.
The 1967 war followed a broadly similar pattern with a declaration "As of today there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the U.N. about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is TOTAL WAR, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."
Israel again gained land in an act of self defence.
Despite these 2 attempts to exterminate them by neighbouring Arab countries, Israel in the Taba process of 2001 offered the Palestinians 97% of the pre 67 West Bank, sovereignty over Eastern Jerusalem, right of return for refugees with families already in Israel and a 35 billion dollar compensation package for refugee’s who would have presumably returned to the new Palestinian State.
That deal was turned down by Palestinian dictator of the time Yasser Arafat. Nor did he offer a counter proposal. 18 months later he came back saying he would take it, too late.
And in case there are any simpletons reading this that do not understand the overall situation, no missiles would have been fired into Israel – and Hamas wouldn’t exist – if there wasn’t an illegal occupation of Palestinian land.
U N D E R S T A N D?
Actually I disagree with you there Grassy.
Fatah stated its intention to destroy Israel when it was founded in 1954.
The first serious terrorist attacks against Israel came in January 1965 and they came out of envy because Israel had managed to set up an integrated water supply, thus allowing irrigation of land that was hitherto barren.
The Six Day War took place seventeen months later in June 1966.
Therefore the attacks on Israel pre-date the Six (not seven as somebody earlier said) Day War indicating the “occupation” is just a pretext and that attacks would and indeed were carried out against Israel even without any occupation of disputed territories.
Fatah had obviously made it’s peace with Israel, Paul – or was at least prepared to recognise and negotiate with it – so I’m not sure I see the relevance of your statement, to be honest.
I won’t dispute the historical accuracy of the rest of your post, if it is meant to suggest that the Occupation is not the root cause of the conflict, then I have to disagree.
Fatah had obviously made it’s peace with Israel, Paul – or was at least prepared to recognise and negotiate with it – so I’m not sure I see the relevance of your statement, to be honest.
I won’t dispute the historical accuracy of the rest of your post, if it is meant to suggest that the Occupation is not the root cause of the conflict, then I have to disagree.
When Fatah made peace it was a spent force and has been superceded by new factions.
The relevance is that Hamas can be traced back to Fatah – Hamas cannot be considered without looking back at how it was founded and where its roots are – ero it is very relevant.
We will have to agree to differ – because the origins of the conflict do go back to before the “occupation” – the “occupation” may be used as a convenient excuse for the current actions, however I would contend even if there was no occupation there would still be conflict as long as the state of Israel exists.
It is a sad reality there are those who will never, ever, accept the state of Israel.
I see the UN have now stopped delivering aid because an Isreali tank took out one of their trucks.
Is that similar to the last invasion of Lebannon, where they bombed the international airport?
The level of violence is disproportionate surely?
It is a sad reality there are those who will never, ever, accept the state of Israel.
Whilst that is undoubtedly true, Paul, it seems to me that the cleverest policy would be to isolate such people, rather than give grist to their mill by indiscriminately killing women and children, and being quite matter-of-fact about it in the process.
I see the UN have now stopped delivering aid because an Isreali tank took out one of their trucks.
Is that similar to the last invasion of Lebannon, where they bombed the international airport?
The level of violence is disproportionate surely?
It is unfortunare the UN convoy ws hit, however when operating in a military zone there is always a risk something like this could happen.
It would be premature to comment on the exact circumstances of what happened until investigations have been carried out. Which the IDF are doing now and I have no doubts that if the UN convoy was hit due to negligence then appropriate action will be taken against those responsible.
As to the proportionality of the response, what do you suggest the IDF do? Go in with pea shooters?
The palsied stupidity part kicked-off when some yahoo suggested that a nuclear bomb could be tactically deployed in Israel, without it having any impact on Palestinians.
Dont reinvent what i said. I stated WMD as you well know, which is not exclusively nuclear. In fact i pointed out to you pretty quickly (because i had to FFS) that biological and chemical weapons could easily be on Hamas’s agenda
A hamas leader has called for this form of warfare as i recall and we have no need to go over the continued race driven genocidal statements from their leadership and that of hezbollahs
The Six Day War took place seventeen months later in June 1966.
Thanks for the correction. I have incorrectly lived under the misconception that the Six Day War took place in 1967, beginning on the morning of 5th June with a series of Israeli pre-emtive air strikes, and culminating 6 days later on the 10th June.
Apologies that was a typo – goes to show I am human after all – it makes no difference to the point I was making.
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