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I refer m’learned friend to A P Herbert:
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I do not believe that the wisest scholars can surely say how Julius Caesar pronounced his name, and I care nothing if they can.    For if I had abundant proof that the general answered to Yooliooss Kayzar I should not say that an act of the Chimney Magna justices was ooltrah weerayze.    It is safe to prophesy that these hateful sounds will never proceed from the lips of an English judge, however many innocent boys are instructed to make them at school.
The same may be said of all the professions in which the ‘dead’ languages are not merely the toys of pedagogoes but the constant tools of practical men.
I suffer from lumbago; I grow geraniums; I go to the cinema.
And when my doctor diagnoses loombahgo, my gardiner cultivates gerahniooms, or my cook enjoys herself at the kyneemah I shall begin to think that the pedagogues are making headway.
As for the political world, the numerous Latin words in current political usage are sufficiently mystifying to the man-in-the-tavern without our attempting to make him pronounce them as some good don believes they may have been pronounced by Cicero or Horace.
Even the mocking business man is not ashamed to draw his dividends at so much per centum; but not all the pedants of Arabia will induce him to draw them pair kentoom.
It follows, I think, that a system of teaching Latin which runs contrary to the practical use of Latin wherever Latin is practically employed is wrong and ought to be abandoned.
This has been said before; but it is time for it to be said by one of His Majesty’s judges.   For our profession more than any other employs the naked Latin word as it was written by the Romans; and we alone are in a position to enforce our will upon this matter by guiding the speech of those who practise before us.
Mr. Wick, I am sorry for you. I look forward to seeing you before me again, cured of the horrible habits your professors taught you, and able to take that place in the ranks of your profession which your talents evidently deserve.
Meanwhile, through your unhappy person, I issue, in the name of His Majesty’s judges, this edict to the educationists (‘What’, as Mr. Haddock has so ably said, ‘a word!’): The New Pronunciation is dead and must be buried.
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http://laudatortemporisacti.blogspot.co … ation.html
best regards
wit
Lough Neagh.  Know it doesn’t rhyme. Lock Nar (as in Armagh) has been suggested. Can anyone confirm ?
The "l" is pronounced "n" and the "n" "ch".
So, the horse’s name is pronounced "nob cheez"
Remis Velisque – Latin for ‘with oars and sails’. How is Velisque pronounced with ref to last syllable.
It’s not Latin, it’s Khazakh.
Pronunciation is "kok suker"
("u" as in hut)
Hope this helps and look forward to watching this afternoon’s ch4 racing.
Steve
(Edited by stevedvg at 12:50 pm on Jan. 27, 2007)
Yep, it should be pronounced "Lock Nay". Nice to see someone doing their homework :) Commentators often draw a laugh from punters here in Ireland when they mispronounce the name of a horse, but it is understandable!
Quote: from apracing on 8:50 am on Jan. 27, 2007[br]
Quote: from Richard Hoiles.<br> <br>I got 7% for the only Latin exam I ever took ! That’s worth a grade ‘C’  pass nowadays. <br>AP
<br>Reminds me of the quote in one of the papers of a mother, when her son roaring with delight, bawled out to her that he’d graduated.
She said that she thought to herself, "Thank God for falling standards!"
You may all have read it, but it creased me up.
(Edited by Grimes at 1:03 pm on Jan. 27, 2007)
Quote: from Richard Hoiles on 7:35 am on Jan. 27, 2007[br]<br>I got 7% for the only Latin exam I ever took !
You’re handy with Greek though. If I recall correctly the only commentator to pronounce dear old Xaipete correctly – ‘kyretay’. The clever clogs who named him decided to try and fox all and sundry by using the actual X ‘chi’ and p ‘rho’ letters from the greek alphabet, instead of the normal phonetic translation into our alphabet.
A word with Graham Goode concerning his pronounciation of Buzybackson wouldn’t go amiss. It seemed to vary between ‘buzzy’ and ‘busby’ today, whereas all we Winnie-the-Pooh fans know it should be pronounced ‘busy’ as in the note stuck on Christopher Robin’s door:
Gon out<br>Backson<br>Bisy<br>Backson
…imvho
Again, as a somewhat misguided scholar of the Classics for the past few years, I had spotted Xaipete a long time ago. But no-one believed me!! It drove me nuts…:-D
So thank you for reminding me that I’m not going crazy and it really was from the Greek meaning ‘greetings’ in the ‘hello’ sense of the word. Also an imperative if I remember rightly but don’t quote me on that. I burned my books when I left Uni so have no reference point!!
Quote: from lekha85 on 10:43 pm on Jan. 27, 2007[br]I burned my books when I left Uni so have no reference point!!
As a great man once said "education is wasted on youth"
Are you the only Classics graduate leading horses around the parade rings of grim northern gaffs?
It’s time Lauderdale was winning again isn’t it?
Well done to all concerned with Kerry Lads
Soul Blazer, apracing? Don’t you mean "alma flagrante"? Though as a "bona fide" latin scholar, wit will probably think otherwise.
(Edited by Grimes at 12:44 am on Jan. 29, 2007)
hi grimes
if Soul Blazer is a reference to the hero in the Nintendo game by that name, then the idiomatic translation would have to be "Heracles", since he was the only one who fought the monster keeping the souls, rather than seek to pacify him.  ;)
<br>i guess idiomatic translations have their dangers though.
story goes that once at the UN a Russian delegate’s speech was being translated into English.
Picking up on a quote made from Pushkin, the translator neatly converted it into an equivalent from Shakespeare  -"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
However, the Danish delegate, listening in English, took exception, and jumped up to demand an immediate  retraction and apology.
The Russian in turn protested the unfounded aggressive intrusion.
apparently there then followed quite a bit of "no i didn’t, yes you did" before torpor was restored.
best regards
wit
<br>Sadly Soul Blazer didn’t offer anything approaching the heroic at Lingfield – looked about as keen as a NH jockey on a sunny afternoon.
AP
c’leeen aleeen for Cailin Alainn is just as funny.
"Colleen awling" is the correct pronunciation. Big Mac made a heroic effort on Saturday but didn’t quite get there!!
Quote: from Drone on 11:19 pm on Jan. 28, 2007[br]
Quote: from lekha85 on 10:43 pm on Jan. 27, 2007[br]I burned my books when I left Uni so have no reference point!!
<br>Are you the only Classics graduate leading horses around the parade rings of grim northern gaffs?
Ha ha…quite possibly. I do believe a 2:1 BA (Hons) from Durham in Classics was the best way to get into racing…
Quote: from lekha85 on 3:50 pm on Jan. 29, 2007[br]
a 2:1 BA (Hons) from Durham in Classics
Impressive degree, impressive city
ars gratia artis
Hi, wit,
That must have been absolutely hilarious for anyone who realised at the time what was going on! I’d have been helpless!
Literal translations, far more predictably perhaps, can also lead to trouble, can’t they?
I remember our French (or maybe history) teacher telling us that the Americans’ misunderstanding of their French allies request for more ammunition in one of their battles for independence, led the former to refuse this arrogant-sounding "demande"! Who needs enemies …!
On the subject of verbal humour more generally, I remember creasing up at a quote from what the medieval Irish called the Annals of the Four Masters,  (apparently an anglicised version of the Irish for "friars" ), which I read in a fascinating history book by a man called W C Davies, called, "England under the Normans and Angevins" (I think).
You’re perhaps familiar with the Annals of the Four "Maistirs" (sounds like the Scotch for "master", the cynical term used by my late mother-in-law sometimes used when referring to her spouse).<br> <br>The author described the sense of utter outrage felt by the Irish people at Dermot McMurtagh’s treasonous invitation to the Norman English rulers to come over and conquer the country. I think the author’s words were rendered as: "The whole island was, as it were, a trembling sod"!
It’ll all probably be old hat to lekha85. (Can anyone capable of speech and writing, never mind an honours graduate, really be so young as to be born in 1985?)
Incidentally, I think the most brilliant, idiomatic translation I’ve come across was, "That’s Women for You!" for "Cosi Fan Tutte!"
Best regards yourself
Grimes
<br>
Quote: from Drone on 9:30 pm on Jan. 27, 2007[br]
Quote: from Richard Hoiles on 7:35 am on Jan. 27, 2007[br]<br>I got 7% for the only Latin exam I ever took !
You’re handy with Greek though. If I recall correctly the only commentator to pronounce dear old Xaipete correctly – ‘kyretay’. The clever clogs who named him decided to try and fox all and sundry by using the actual X ‘chi’ and p ‘rho’ letters from the greek alphabet, instead of the normal phonetic translation into our alphabet.
A word with Graham Goode concerning his pronounciation of Buzybackson wouldn’t go amiss. It seemed to vary between ‘buzzy’ and ‘busby’ today, whereas all we Winnie-the-Pooh fans know it should be pronounced ‘busy’ as in the note stuck on Christopher Robin’s door:
Gon out<br>Backson<br>Bisy<br>Backson
…imvho<br>
I mentioned this one in another thread as it always bugs me where they get the extra letter "b" from. . You’re quite right, it is from good ol’ Winnie the Pooh!
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