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The issue I have 3 and 4 year old colts being taken to stud prematurely is this:
As we know, they go to stud in order to, hopefully, produce progeny that’ll become future champions and/or, ultimately, true greats. But then this is what pees me off … when the golden opportunity comes around when such offspring have the sparkling chance to become a ‘true great’, it doesn’t happen … as in the case of Baaeed. It’s as though the cycle of stud halts at 340 degrees.
I’ve often thought that with flat racing they could do away with the racing and just endlessly breed horses.
If it were a good ground arc, id run him.
Its the old issue. Avoiding the greater challenge to maintain the unbeaten record/stud value.
Its understandable but one of the more unsavory aspects of the sport. Happens in boxing also.
SHL
Sadly these days even winning the Arc wouldn’t boost his stud value as the big money players aren’t interested in stamina. It isn’t about money though. Sheikh Hamdan long dreamed of having a stallion in the league of Galileo or Dubawi and they think Baaeed is the one. We won’t see him race next year.
When Baaeed is retired, his racing career will have lasted only 16 months. He was unraced as a two year old.
Unlike Frankel, he did at least have a race outside Britain (but only once).
Running in the Champion Stakes at long odds on is boring. Why not run in the Arc and the Breeders Cup? His status as a top class racehorse and stallion prospect is secure. Winning at Ascot will tell us nothing and will not enhance his stud value in the slightest.
“Sadly these days even winning the Arc wouldn’t boost his stud value as the big money players aren’t interested in stamina.”
This is manifestly true.
Back in the day, a decent Derby winner would take the Irish Derby/King George route.
But the International Stakes is more coveted than the Ascot race nowadays because of the race distance.
Sea The Stars, Frankel and Baaeed all went to York.
Times change.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Hopefully the trainer will change his mind.
It’s up to the owner, but the debates will otherwise rage on long after the horse is retired. I’d like to see him continue racing and challenge for something seemingly beyond him. Then we’d see something great or not. But at least He’d have had a tilt at the stars.In the main I’d say we see a lot more of top Flat horses nowadays than we do of top Jumpers, a complete reversal from back in the day.
Not reasonable to expect Baaeed to run in the Arc when, if anything, victory might actually detract from his commercial stud value in the modern (1m-1m2f optimum) world and sheer fantasy to think of him racing at five.
Btw I have never understood the media and public obsession with contriving a situation to push a horse beyond its limits.
Maybe Baaeed should be aimed at the 2023 Champion Hurdle or the Gold Cup at Ascot?
He’s a very good, cusp of greatness, agreed, 1m-1m2f Group 1 horse about to deservedly almost certainly retire unbeaten after an Ascot swan song.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It would have been exciting to hear Baaeed being targeted at The Arc and if it was 1m2f he probably would be but sadly flat racing is a business and going to stud unbeaten is more important.
I wonder if GBR pay appearance money for Champions Day🤔It’s sad to say it, but he probably has more commercial appeal at stud if his race record indicates him as a miler who could extend to 10f, than as a 10-12f horse who had the speed to win at a mile first. I don’t think it’s necessarily about him retiring unbeaten; plenty of horses don’t.
But Flat breeding is all about speed these days and there is no shortage of middle distance STS sons being funnelled to NH breeding, including Baaeed’s full brother Hukum. Baaeed needs to offer something different, something marketable, and currently he does.
Irish Champion and Breeders’ Cup Mile is an interesting alternative though.
I do not disagree with any of the comments. But if the trend towards speed continues, can we envisage the distance of the Arc being reduced to 10 furlongs? After all, the Prix du Jockey Club was.
How much longer can the Arc remain Europe’s premier race if the best horses swerve it and it is won by a stout German bred horse that out stays speedier types on soft ground?
If the Arc was over 10 furlongs now, Baaeed would be going there.
If the distance was reduced, I suppose it would raise questions about the future of the Champion Stakes. Although traditionalists think it ended when it was moved from Newmarket.
You could say the same about the King George – and even The Derby – over here.
The British tend to cling more grimly onto tradition than the French.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It doesn’t matter what sport it is, but I like to see sporting performers stretch themselves, out of their comfort zone. So for Baaeed that would be either the Arc or Breeders Cup….and even that’s not really out of his comfort zone.
I understand the breeding side of it but are they really going to lose so much money?
do they not already have enough?
are they not set for life?
Maybe the Champion Stakes is worth more these days because Frankel won it..
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
“I’ve often thought that with flat racing they could do away with the racing and just endlessly breed horses.”
100% patriot and I can assure you I’d be the first one buying tickets.
The Arc in the Autumn won’t play to Baaeed’s strengths. As I said in the Big Race Section:
Sea The Stars won a Guineas but the form he showed at a mile was nowhere near the exceptional ability he later showed over further. ie Only showing exceptional ability at 1m2f and 1m4f and had there been a good miler around that early in the season Sea The Stas would not have won the Guineas.
Baaeed has already shown exceptional ability at 1m and 1m2f. The Arc at 1m4f would probably be too far. It would’ve been like Sea The Stars going for the (“Triple Crown”) St Leger (which many at the time wanted).
Brigadier Gerard went for and won the King George, but the form he showed was nowhere near his best. Hanging and the margin being reduced near the line. Parnell was a bloody good stayer, but truth is he was nowhere near the class of The Brigadier. ie On ability alone should not have been able to get within 1 1/2 lengths of the great horse. If there had been a rival able to handle the very strong pace that day, then a horse of much inferior ability could have beaten Brigadier Gerard.
If Baaeed went for the Arc then rivals would ensure a very strong pace and with a softish surface also enhancing the test of stamina… It would go against everything that makes Baaeed an exceptional racehorse – he’d have little chance of being anywhere near his best.
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