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Here’s the RP article:
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … t7DaysNews
Good news for British racing fans.
And good news for Hunt Ball as well. From thinking his previous owner was a ‘breath of fesh air’ I started to loathe the way he was treating this brave horse. Glad he’s back here, but a pity he didn’t take to American jumping as I think he would have had a great time over there.
Hunt Ball’s dismal failure in the US does not come as a surprise. Don’t know what Atlantic Equine paid for him, but if it was anything over $30K, he was greatly overpriced. His last UK win at Taunton was what amounted to a generous Class 3 event, whereby he didn’t really beat anything. Supposedly he got his ground in the US, but not once did he pick up his feet. Thought maybe he didn’t like the inner turf courses, but not getting a result at a proper chasing course (Far Hills) tells me he is quite ordinary. A lateral move from Sheppard to Henderson won’t help. There was no issue with his jumping the US obstacles, he’s just not a very fast horse.
It would have been interesting to see at what level he would have been competitive. Perhaps, he would have been better suited as a Timber horse. Moving back to the UK won’t change the fact that he is ordinary and I would not expect him to win a significant race. I applaud Atlantic Equine for taking a shot at trying to bring a quality chaser/hurdler to the US. Unfortunately, Hunt Ball wasn’t that horse.
He’s not ordinary.
For some unknown reason, probably vanity, he ran in the Argento on heavy ground in January when he should have been resting. Still managed to place at the Festival off top weight.
So he’s been in training several months and then asked to switch continents…I think he’ll be freshened up after quarantine. The December Gold Cup might be a target, would be close to top weight but there’s always NdB to ride. The Racing Plus Chase if the ground is decent, or that 2 1/2 mile chase won by Katenko this year.
Lots of options.
If not ordinary, he’s almost certainly overrated these days running off 162.
That ‘improvement out of nowhere’ season, 2011/12, wasn’t all it seemed. He’d had just 4 outings prior to the first victory in his sequence. Connections made the best of him when he was red hot, and his owner almost certainly did some very good business when selling him on – I suspect the new owners paid a 50% premium for the burnt out fairytale.
He seems a tough type and he might win again as his mark steadily drops.
Mr Henderson has nothing to lose in taking him on. It will be interesting to see how he campaigns him.
If not ordinary, he’s almost certainly overrated these days running off 162.
That ‘improvement out of nowhere’ season, 2011/12, wasn’t all it seemed. He’d had just 4 outings prior to the first victory in his sequence. Connections made the best of him when he was red hot, and his owner almost certainly did some very good business when selling him on – I suspect the new owners paid a 50% premium for the burnt out fairytale.
He seems a tough type and he might win again as his mark steadily drops.
Mr Henderson has nothing to lose in taking him on. It will be interesting to see how he campaigns him.
162 is probably too high by several pounds but the horses he was finishing amongst during the spring of last year suggest he’s early to mid 150’s.
Even the Taunton form looks solid enough, giving Jump City – a roguish but solid enough 130 – two stone and a beating. The other placed horses suggest it’s not a poor race.MarkTT – Definitely ordinary. He had plenty of time off before his first race in the US. His freshening was to no effect. My analysis of his Taunton win was correct. The only placed horse that has gone on to win was Jump City and that was in a Class 3 event.
Steeplechasing – Absolutely spot on post! Like you I will be curious to see how he is campaigned.
MarkTT – Definitely ordinary. He had plenty of time off before his first race in the US. His freshening was to no effect. My analysis of his Taunton win was correct. The only placed horse that has gone on to win was Jump City and that was in a Class 3 event.
He’s not ordinary. You sound like Zark’s who claimed he wouldn’t like to own Silviniaco Conti.
As for that Exeter race, there were only six runners…
Don’t need masses of winners to come out of a race for a horse to run to it’s rating.An " ordinary " horse that wins with a penalty and then places in successive festivals. Who’d have thought it !?!
He’s not ordinary. You sound like Zark’s who claimed he wouldn’t like to own Silviniaco Conti.
As for that Exeter race, there were only six runners…
Don’t need masses of winners to come out of a race for a horse to run to it’s rating.An " ordinary " horse that wins with a penalty and then places in successive festivals. Who’d have thought it !?!
A year and a half ago, I would not have described him as ordinary, but a horse who might have a bit of potential. However, he hasn’t gone on from that race. Apart from the Taunton win/gift, he’s been soundly beaten in all of his 2013 starts. So, today, he’s ordinary.
Steeplechasing had it right in describing Hunt Ball as a "burnt out fairytale".
Perhaps he will have a resurgence with his return to the UK. Maybe Henderson can get something out of him that Sheppard couldn’t. But I don’t think you will see him winning until he’s rated back in the 130’s, which is what won a Class 3 at Exeter today, Plumpton yesterday, and Cheltenham/Kelso this past Saturday.
Sure, he could be useful again, but not top-flight. Nothing wrong with having a useful horse that can cover expenses.
Hunt Ball’s dismal failure in the US does not come as a surprise. Don’t know what Atlantic Equine paid for him, but if it was anything over $30K, he was greatly overpriced. His last UK win at Taunton was what amounted to a generous Class 3 event, whereby he didn’t really beat anything. Supposedly he got his ground in the US, but not once did he pick up his feet. Thought maybe he didn’t like the inner turf courses, but not getting a result at a proper chasing course (Far Hills) tells me he is quite ordinary. A lateral move from Sheppard to Henderson won’t help. There was no issue with his jumping the US obstacles, he’s just not a very fast horse.
It would have been interesting to see at what level he would have been competitive. Perhaps, he would have been better suited as a Timber horse. Moving back to the UK won’t change the fact that he is ordinary and I would not expect him to win a significant race. I applaud Atlantic Equine for taking a shot at trying to bring a quality chaser/hurdler to the US. Unfortunately, Hunt Ball wasn’t that horse.
Even relatively ordinary jumpers in the UK/Ireland have turned into G1 winners in the US. Hunt Ball is just the odd exception.
Although the American hurdlers are actually really competitive this year. Divine Fortune, Italian Wedding, Mr. Hot Stuff, Demonstrative, Pierrot Lunaire, all good horses coming into their best form this season. The novice division stacks up well too. In the past few years any old nag from the UK could fly in and take a piece of the big purses here, this year not so much.
Even relatively ordinary jumpers in the UK/Ireland have turned into G1 winners in the US. Hunt Ball is just the odd exception.
Although the American hurdlers are actually really competitive this year. Divine Fortune, Italian Wedding, Mr. Hot Stuff, Demonstrative, Pierrot Lunaire, all good horses coming into their best form this season. The novice division stacks up well too.
In the past few years any old nag from the UK could fly in and take a piece of the big purses here, this year not so much.
I couldn’t disagree more, the US jump product has been pretty solid the past 5-6 years. Black Jack Blues might validate your statement, but I think Joe Delozier did a great job of turning him around.
To make that kind of statement you need to give examples. Other that BJB, who do you have. No places, G1 winners.
He’s not ordinary. You sound like Zark’s who claimed he wouldn’t like to own Silviniaco Conti.
As for that Exeter race, there were only six runners…
Don’t need masses of winners to come out of a race for a horse to run to it’s rating.An " ordinary " horse that wins with a penalty and then places in successive festivals. Who’d have thought it !?!
Perhaps he will have a resurgence with his return to the UK. Maybe Henderson can get something out of him that Sheppard couldn’t. But I don’t think you will see him winning until he’s rated back in the 130’s, which is what won a Class 3 at Exeter today, Plumpton yesterday, and Cheltenham/Kelso this past Saturday.
You’re talking rubbish. He gave a 130 horse two stone and beat it. Woolcombe Folly might not be a world beater but he’s a solid yardstick.
As for British horses in the US, you’ve moved the goalposts on Miss Woodford as regards them having to be G1 winners.
The Grey Express was rated 109 over here and yet recently won a $45,000 race over there.
Decoy Daddy was mid 120’s in Ireland yet won the Grade 3 National Hunt Cup at Malvern.Hunt Ball is a good horse and has joined the best trainer in the game.
I think Hunt Ball needs a nice long break. He has had a return trip to the United States, changed stables twice and was raced hard by Anthony Knott with heavy weights on unsuitable grounds and distances.
I’d let him take the winter off and come back around March.
Even relatively ordinary jumpers in the UK/Ireland have turned into G1 winners in the US. Hunt Ball is just the odd exception.
Although the American hurdlers are actually really competitive this year. Divine Fortune, Italian Wedding, Mr. Hot Stuff, Demonstrative, Pierrot Lunaire, all good horses coming into their best form this season. The novice division stacks up well too.
In the past few years any old nag from the UK could fly in and take a piece of the big purses here, this year not so much.
I couldn’t disagree more, the US jump product has been pretty solid the past 5-6 years. Black Jack Blues might validate your statement, but I think Joe Delozier did a great job of turning him around.
To make that kind of statement you need to give examples. Other that BJB, who do you have. No places, G1 winners.
Your Sum Man, Pierrot Lunaire, Percussionist (good back class, but by the time he was brought here he had been floudering in C3 handicaps for a few years).
I’m a big fan of the US jumpers obviously (Flatterer is my avatar photo) but I’d be kidding myself if I believed they’re exactly up to par with their European counterparts.
Your Sum Man, Pierrot Lunaire, Percussionist (good back class, but by the time he was brought here he had been floudering in C3 handicaps for a few years).
I’m a big fan of the US jumpers obviously (Flatterer is my avatar photo) but I’d be kidding myself if I believed they’re exactly up to par with their European counterparts.
Of the horses you mention, I would only put Percussionist in the that category, but even that could be a bit of a stretch. It is true that while he was in the UK, he was a C3 horse. But, he made quite an improvement once he was moved to Hanne Bechmann’s barn in Norway and by the time he came to the US he was much better than when he ran in the UK. Once he left the care of Bechmann, his form soon tailed off an never won another race.
Impossible to put Pierrot Lunaire in that category. He was a G2 winner in the UK. As such, he has done very well in the US winning 3 G1’s.
Difficult to assess Your Sum Man as I don’t think he had enough runs in Ireland when fit. He obviously had injury issues and when Tom Voss did get him right, everything fell into place for him at Far Hills for his 1 and only US win (G1). A confirmed mudlark, the track came up very soft that day, which played to his strength.
Though the premise of your first post that any old C3 can come to the US and plunder all of their G1’s is ridiculous. I think when one does, that is the exception, not Hunt Ball’s failure.
You’re talking rubbish. He gave a 130 horse two stone and beat it. Woolcombe Folly might not be a world beater but he’s a solid yardstick.
As for British horses in the US, you’ve moved the goalposts on Miss Woodford as regards them having to be G1 winners.
The Grey Express was rated 109 over here and yet recently won a $45,000 race over there.
Decoy Daddy was mid 120’s in Ireland yet won the Grade 3 National Hunt Cup at Malvern.Hunt Ball is a good horse and has joined the best trainer in the game.
Perhaps your reading comprehension is not up to scratch. I’m living in the here and now, not March 2012. I thought I made that clear. Additionally, I didn’t move the goal posts. Miss Woodford used the standard of G1’s. I’m not interested in discussing placed horses, only winners.
Woolcombe Folly, another ordinary, but useful horse. You’re making my point for me. He hasn’t won in almost three years. It seems as if he might have to drop into the 130’s before he could win again.
The Grey Express is an apples to oranges examples. She’s a very nice mare and the stake she won was restricted to her own sex. However in an apples to apples comparison, her only G1 start in the US she ran 8th of 9 beaten 14 1/2 lengths. Again, another nice horse, but only competitive in her own division.
Decoy Daddy is another very useful horse, but has no G1 wins in his CV.
At the end of the day, we may simply disagree on what is ordinary and what isn’t.
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