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Well in fairness how long ago was it, and once again is it my job to remember dates and courses no?
I am referring to incompatence with regard to peoples professions not past times
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Does it not strike you as somewhat ironic, micks54321, that you lambast participants in what you believe to be a widely corrupt sport, yet are prepared to bet in an Irish bumper on the back of what someone else has told you?
Not particualry, as you see I knew connections of the horse so therefore I was told horse/jockey/trainer, all were trying to win.
How is it ironic when I was told all would be trying and I had belief in all ability???
It would be ironic if I bet in a bumper without knowing this I agree as Bumpers are a minefield and should be avoided unless you have confidence…
Mr Walsh must be ashamed for connections today, unfortunately as with all horse racing stables in Ireland, this young lad is connected through his family and for that reason will pick up more mounts…
Sure Irish racing is completely crooked and it’s just a big family love in. Everyone knows that.
Perhaps you should air your views on here: http://forum.betfair.com/
As regards the maiden hurdle at Gowran you are referring to. Sure Mark Walsh has given horses better rides, but the winner still won with a good bit in hand.
Well in fairness how long ago was it, and once again is it my job to remember dates and courses no?
I am referring to incompatence with regard to peoples professions not past times
Well if you are so determined to draw attention to perceived incompetence then it’s not unreasonable to expect you to do a little research on courses and dates.
I would presume that you are brilliant at your chosen profession and have never made a mistake?
Rob
No im not perfect, I have made mistakes but I have learned from them
Not mistakes however of the blatant kind of some jockeys.
Ah now Mr Walsh lost the race there, you must admit that surely….
It happened today and it will happen again,
My point is (which I dont think I have explained very well) is not that mistakes dont happen, but when they do there is no form of action taken against jockeys, why would they care, sure nothing will happen to them and it will be forgotten about by the afternoon. Jockeys dont really have to care if they make mistakes..
Some of us may get sacked for mistakes of a similar nature in our respective jobs..
In relation to myself not doing reearch on courses/dates, I didnt feel neccesary as most people on here (although I pointed out wrong details) knew what I was talking about.I got the point across which was the main thing.
Ah now Mr Walsh lost the race there, you must admit that surely….
Can’t agree with that. Admitedly it wasn’t Mark Walsh’s greatest ever ride but the horse jumped poorly the whole way round and the jockey on the winner didn’t have to get serious with his mount at any stage on the run in.
Jockeys dont really have to care if they make mistakes..
Quite frankly that is an appalling genralisation to make about any group of professionals.
Like anyone in any job jockeys make their mistakes and learn from them.
In the case of jockeys they are charging with beasts which I have seen described as having ‘faulty steering and dodgy brakes’. My brother, who is a competent horseman, would concur with that view of horses. Watching many jump races I can only marvel at the guts and determination day in and day out shown by this group of people. Even more so amateurs many of whom display a surprising amount of ability for those who are ‘doing it for fun’.
You may care to note that in a 18 runner race there can only be one winner, barring a dead-heat. Does that make all the losing jockeys ‘incompetent’? In Mr Walsh’s race, how did the rider of the fifth placed horse ride, or the eighth, ninth and tenth?
Rob
Rob,
I think you maybe reading a different post.
Did I say that every other jockey bar the winner rode a bad race?
If I did I apologisr, could you kindly tell me where I said that though?
Thank you in advance
Mick
You stated
‘Jockeys dont really have to care if they make mistakes..’
I replied
‘Quite frankly that is an appalling generalisation to make about any group of professionals.’
If you really genuinely believe the first statement then it escapes me why you have any interest in the sport, a feeling confirmed by a number of your posts in this thread.
Rob
WINS RUNS % 2NDS 3RDS 4THS WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE £1 STAKE
NHF 6 125 5 12 11 20 £12,124.70 £23,242.21 -48.50
HURDLE 71 857 8 67 99 52 £321,183.02 £556,927.29 -204.53
CHASE 58 538 11 59 70 63 £574,206.75 £916,947.00 -137.07Seamus Durack,who according to you cannot ride ,has nevertheless rode Snoopy Loopy to head the Order of Merit this season . He has always given his not inconsiderate all when riding for me.
Well in fairness how long ago was it,
Less than a year ago and not hard to find mention of online;
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22sam%20thomas%22%20fakenham&hl=en&ned=uk&tab=nw
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
With the exception of a few amateurs, all jockeys can at least ride a competent race but, as in all jobs and walks of life, there are varying degrees of ability. ‘Twas ever thus and ’twill ever be so.
Undoubtedly so, Rob, and I hope you won’t ever catch me arguing otherwise. I’d still maintain that a wilful or downright too-clever horse can play better jockeys than Rodi Greene for fools on occasion (ah, good evening, Deano’s Beano!); and I’m just that bit more inclined to think Peaceful Means was winning the battle of wills with Greene today, as she has with others in the past.
Mind, I’ve spent most of the last couple of months in the pointing field, so my attitude might be being temporarily knocked off-kilter by seeing so many horses carting their amateurs left, right and centre. Some wonderful jaw-cocking and digging in of heels at Garnons last weekend.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The Racing Post have joined the debate with one of their in-depth features:
[Segal] Gives us an R
[Knight] Give us a U
[Birch] Gives us a B
[Williams] Gives us a Y
Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby…….
Cheerleading tip sheet indeed!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
‘How much difference does the jockey make?’, I asked Dunlop, leaning against the Japanese Range Rover on the gallops one morning.
‘He can have a very adverse effect, first off. If he makes a complete cock-up it can have a very ill effect. But given a clear run, it is all down to the horse – 90 per cent, more than that even, it is down to the horse.
‘ The difference between a very good jockey and the absolute top is that the very best will SOMETIMES win you races you shouldn’t have won. Pat Eddery can do this, Steve Cauthen can do it. And Lester Piggott, of course, was the man who could do this to a quite exceptional extent. Willie Carson at his best can do it too. ‘
===================================
from Horsesweat and Tears – Simon Barnes – A year [1987] in John Dunlop’s racing stable.
Barnes’ own observations:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Media people are always looking for what we are taught to call ‘human interest’; the trouble with racing is that it is basically an equine interest story. But a human face is constantly sought: hence the somewhat obsessive attention the top jockeys get….….The trouble is that the public understanding of jockeyship is completely upside down.
People like to see jockeys as goal-scoring strikers, or as swashbuckling batsmen: as the person who has the responsibility to score; the person who, by his initiative and inspiration, conjures up the victory.
This is not the case at all.
The fact is that a jockey has much more in common with a goalkeeper or wicketkeeper.
Certainly the jockey has a decisive influence over the horse’s progress in any race he ever starts, but this is not in the main about the inspiration he puts in, but about the mistakes he does not make.
Like a wicketkeeper or goalkeeper whose primary responsibility is to not drop the ball, the jockey’s primary contribution is a negative one: not making mistakes.
In 100 per cent of races, a jockey has the power to lose it.
In a tiny, tiny percentage of races, the jockey can put in something extra and win it for you.
But most races are won by the combination of the horse’s ability coupled with the jockey’s avoidance of mistakes.
If you think this sounds easy, try watching an apprentice in a race with grown-up jockeys: when he gets it wrong he can get it so horribly wrong that even a layman can see it.
The jockey’s prime skill is invisible as well as invaluable. A good jockey will scarcely ever lose a race that the horse should have won….
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<mick seems to be saying that jockeys today seem to be making more mistakes than they used to – or at least than he used to notice them making when he was putting tons on them.
a generation of bad goalkeepers today, or the same as ever but under increased scrutiny ?
even if the latter, should they be required to up their game to preserve/restore punter confidence?
and if so, by reference to what metrics? statistics? lester/ steve/ pat/ willie as examiners for race-riding licences?
best regards
wit
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