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Anyone looking forward to seeing horses that haven’t run yet?
Post here if you’re waiting for one and if anyone has any news on them please share;
Sizing John – J Harrington
Presenting Percy – P Kelly
Blackbow – WP Mullins
Carefully Selected – WP Mullins
Asterior Forlonge – WP Mullins
D’Lauro – J O’BrienSizing John- “Clock ticking” won’t return on this ground.
PP- The same.
Blackbow- the same.
CS- the same.
other two no idea.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!I understand that logic for Sizing John and Presenting Percy because they’re Grade 1 open company animals. Blackbow & Carefully Selected haven’t won a Maiden Hurdle; there are plenty of Maiden Hurdle opportunities on softer ground like Cork, Limerick, Tramore etc..
Black Hercules
Death duty
Cilaos Emery
Penhill
Rathvinden
Isleofhopeanddreams
Bleu Berry
Whiskey sour
Coquin man’s
Bamako moriviere
Up for review
Tin soldier
Mick jazz
MinellafordollarsJust a few off the top of my head from Mullins and elliott
Missing in action:
Dis Donc and Robin des Foret- hope they OK after their respective fallsHasn’t seen any action:
Up for Review…poss ground related but a big fragile sort…haven’t heard anything since entered but not declared for Hennessy- anyone know if he is still on to start this season or out for another year?I put Robin d F and Up for Review in VtC’s TTF comp so if out for season will sub them.
Getting pretty late in the day to start Cheltenham horses- it will be a good training performance to get a festival win out of any that haven’t started yet, especially the novices and PP who is barely more than a novice.
Sorry if I have missed something obvious, but what has happened to Whisper?
Last seen being robbed in the Hennessey by Total Recall. Not seen since.
I understand that logic for Sizing John and Presenting Percy because they’re Grade 1 open company animals. Blackbow & Carefully Selected haven’t won a Maiden Hurdle; there are plenty of Maiden Hurdle opportunities on softer ground like Cork, Limerick, Tramore etc..
I presume he doesn’t want to risk them on their hurdle debuts on good ground which could be risky if they jump badly. As for the tracks with softer ground, not sure why they aren’t running them there….
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Sorry if I have missed something obvious, but what has happened to Whisper?
He did pick up an injury of some sort last season. He was on my short or should I say longlist for the GN at the time so it was one I could scratch off. Probably around this time last year when Henderson announced it. Haven’t heard anything since though.
WPM 90% of the time gives a purchase a year off before starting him, so Asterion Forlonge is probably out of the yard and wont be running until next year. I’d imagine the same with Dlauro.
Penhill is being kept fresh for Cheltenham, that was said by Mullins last season.
Whiskey Sour was running on the flat etc. up until November, he is being given a break before returning for the festivals.
Cilaos Emery & Minellafordollars are both entered for a beginners chase this weekend at Fairyhouse so they must be fit.
Some of the Mullins lot have been running on the flat so I wouldn’t be overly worried they haven’t been out yet as they may be being freshened up and with Cheltenham jus over 8 weeks away you would think that you should be seeing them within the next 3-4 weeks.
Its 2 yrs since we have seen Penhill run before Cheltenham itself so I wouldn’t have had him on my list in the first place to be honest – I would imagine SJ & PP are now looking at the Irish Gold Cup or long odds but maybe the Denman as alternatives.
I would imagine that Mullins has a truck load of novice hurdlers (of all abilities) to run yet and with there not being as many Irish race meetings as we have it may also be a question that there isn’t sufficient enough races to go around as well as the ground being unseasonably good.
I still really don’t get the thought process about proper good ground being to quick for these horse as we all know if Cheltenham has the same prevailing ground they will be running, so why not just be honest and say we don’t want to risk an injury before Cheltenham but we are happy to roll the dice for Cheltenham.
I would imagine you could do just as much damage running a horse first time out in tiring soft ground as you could on good ground, in fact you could argue a horse would take longer to recover from it given that you are probably not going to be fully wound up first time out.
In any case, whenever you next here a trainer peddle out the old phrase that he/she ‘will be better on better ground’ you would have to take it with a rather liberal pinch of salt as we now know that most don’t seem inclined to actually go ahead and test that theory when given the chance.
Maybe cynical of me no doubt but it is starting to sound a lot like the ‘leaves on the line’ excuse given for trains being delayed or cancelled.
Next Destination anyone? This was supposedly Ruby’s big hope for the season.
He’s out for season
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!I still really don’t get the thought process about proper good ground being to quick for these horse as we all know if Cheltenham has the same prevailing ground they will be running, so why not just be honest and say we don’t want to risk an injury before Cheltenham but we are happy to roll the dice for Cheltenham.
Have you watched RTV interview on saturday with Ruby? Explains why.
Soft Heavy might take more recovering in terms of tiredness, but horses that aren’t 100% are heavier + more susceptical to injury than when they are at their fittest. Just like a person. Good ground will increase the chances of the horse injurying itself during the race when not 100% fit- this is why all trainers not just Mullins aren’t rushing all their horses out on good ground for their reappearance.
Unfortunately for them it doesn’t seem to be getting any wetter + time is running out.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!still really don’t get the thought process about proper good ground being to quick for these horse as we all know if Cheltenham has the same prevailing ground they will be running, so why not just be honest and say we don’t want to risk an injury before Cheltenham but we are happy to roll the dice for Cheltenham.
Meh, I think there’s a tacit understanding that this is the case. The horses that they think are the best, the big framed beasts and the structurally questionable are the ones most likely to be cotton-wooled.
Good ground will increase the chances of the horse injurying itself during the race when not 100% fit
Is there any actual evidence to prove this as correct or are some trainers using that reason about horses that maybe are not sound enough to be racing in the first place? Also leads to a bigger question as to whether the thoroughbred as a breed is getting more fragile as they are more increasingly wrapped in cotton wool.
If less than 100% fit heavier horses are running on soft/heavy ground they are sinking further into the ground and are having to use their muscles/body that much more to extract themselves out of the ground just to gallop let alone jump a hurdle or fence and that could just as easily lead to pulled muscles, strained tendons or other injuries and then there is the fatigue factor, which you could argue raises the chances of a horse falling and doing more permanent damage.
I could understand it if we are talking about good to firm ground where you are at increased risk in jarring the heavy set horses through the shoulders (especially chasers) – are we heading to the stage where good ground will start to be looked at like we do good to firm for NH?
I listened to Ruby explain it + it’s entirely logical. Heavy horse, stick legs, good ground, unfit, weighing more- increased chance of injury and add to that the fact a horse not fully wound up is probably more likely to injure itself anyway
The impact on them is greater than the impact on soft ground. I am not saying they can’t run on it + neither was Ruby. He is explaining why trainers aren’t running some of their horses on the better ground first run back. I think they know better than us + to be honest, what benefit does Mullin’s or Elliot have to not run a novice hurdler in a maiden hurdle? What benefit is it to them to wrap a novice hurdler in cotton wool? What benefit does Kelly see in not running his (i presume) first + probably only Gold Cup contender till now? Wouldn’t his owner be asking more questions?These NH horses that are being held back like Laurina + Percy etc. have soft + hvy ground form and are suited to them conditions. Laurina is a heavy topped mare – i think the argument on soft ground causing them more injuries is likely wrong.
If these trainer’s were holding back their Winter horses on softer ground i could see the argument. The fact is this isn’t a normal winter weather wise.
PS this isn’t being personal to you, everyone wants to see horses race!
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!The wrapping up in cotton wool comment was more in regard to the top horses not running and not specifically about novice hurdlers. Wouldn’t disagree with Ruby’s logic but then by the same light wouldn’t there still be an injury risk (granted, obviously different from being jarred up) to the same horse running in more testing conditions where a much greater effort/exertion is required?
Some of these horses running on soft & heavy ground is all they have know (especially if they have come from France), so how would a trainer know that they can’t handle good ground if they have a preconceived idea in their head that it needs soft and is never tried on anything quicker?
A high knee action as a general rule of thumb would indicate a need for a softer surface but it is not an automatic given (Triptych had an extremely high knee action yet she not only won on good but also good to firm as well – I know different codes but you get my drift) and it is not like horses over the years haven’t made complete fools of their trainers in doing something they thought and stated until they were blue in the face that they couldn’t do.
Never said it was being personal to me, I just feel that sometimes trainers are being overly cautious in assuming things that they might not have any real hard and fast evidence to support what they are assuming.
100% agree that it is not a normal winter but then again if every race meeting was currently being run in hock deep winter ground you can be certain that most trainers would be bemoaning the fact that they want to run their better horses but can’t do it until they get better ground.
The impact on them is greater than the impact on soft ground. I am not saying they can’t run on it + neither was Ruby. He is explaining why trainers aren’t running some of their horses on the better ground first run back. I think they know better than us + to be honest, what benefit does Mullin’s or Elliot have to not run a novice hurdler in a maiden hurdle? What benefit is it to them to wrap a novice hurdler in cotton wool? What benefit does Kelly see in not running his (i presume) first + probably only Gold Cup contender till now? Wouldn’t his owner be asking more questions?- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.