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Lets not beat around the bush plenty of horse’s are run unfit but is there anything we can do to stop this. What measures can scientists go to in measuring a horse’s fitness on a scale of 0-100 which could be put on the Racing Post card?
Are you suggesting that a horse should only compete when it’s 100% fit? (If it was at all possible to know when that level has been reached.)
Should a potential Derby winner (or Champion Hurdle winner etc.) be 100% fit for a trial?
What if a horse is only, say, 83.2% fit, but is deemed by connections to be still up to winning the race it’s due to run in? Stop it running?
Perhaps some (maybe most) horses go through fitness cycles where they can only be at their absolute 100% best, say 3 or 4 or 5 times a year. Should they only be limited to running at those times?
What if a horse can’t reach its 100% fitness level UNLESS it has a competitive race beforehand? Would you then deny it the right to run in that prep. race?I don’t think the suggestion is that a horse needs to hard trained for every outing. Merely a case of putting the information out there. It will obviously work better in NH where horses wouldn’t be changing so much physically and you can see a horse is 20 kilos heavier for his reappearance than when he won twice the previous season. That would be a better scenario than having to listen to ‘He’ll come on for the run but is fit enough to do himself justice.’
- Total Posts 17716
Publish their weight on arrival at the racecourse.
This sounds like a good idea.
Are you suggesting that a horse should only compete when it’s 100% fit? (If it was at all possible to know when that level has been reached.)
Should a potential Derby winner (or Champion Hurdle winner etc.) be 100% fit for a trial?
What if a horse is only, say, 83.2% fit, but is deemed by connections to be still up to winning the race it’s due to run in? Stop it running?
Perhaps some (maybe most) horses go through fitness cycles where they can only be at their absolute 100% best, say 3 or 4 or 5 times a year. Should they only be limited to running at those times?
What if a horse can’t reach its 100% fitness level UNLESS it has a competitive race beforehand? Would you then deny it the right to run in that prep. race?I DID NOT SAY a horse should be 100% fit to race but from a betting point of view if I knew a horse was only 70% fit or lost sucnificant wieght coming to the racecourse then i wouldn’t back it.
Maybe this would put a stop to drifters in market or would it increase them?
It would be a useful piece of info, don’t they do this with greyhounds?
However, if you go to the races and study the horses in the paddock it’s easy enough to tell – one of the pitfalls of not being there.
Having said that a few years ago I was at York races and a trainer was trying to sell a few of us a share in a horse. It was entered to run the following week but we were told not to back it as it was only 50% fit.
No David, you’re quite right, I’m sure Mr Wilson wasn’t suggesting they all had to be hard trained.
The only answer I suppose is for the punter to go to the racetrack and inspect the runners thoroughly in the pre-parade ring / paddock. It’s one of the few advantages that actually going to the races affords the punter.
The publishing of the horse’s weight may be beneficial. Until such info is available, I suppose the punter will just have to factor in which trainers are more likely to undercook their runners on seasonal re-appearances. It shouldn’t have to be that way, but perhaps half the fun of form/stats/speed analysis is factoring such things in.
I hardly go racing at all now. But in my prime (if I ever had a “prime”), I’d seldom back a horse I hadn’t seen in the pre-parade ring.. Similarly, I was “au-fait” with most pedigrees and trainers placings / methods etc. Not because I was that clever, but just because I put the work in and burnt the midnight oil. I studied the Racing Calendar, followed certain trainers entries, got an insight into their methodology. It paid off. Now I’m married with a family and just don’t have the time plus I now have other priorities. (Perhaps there’s another topic for discussion here – “Can only singles hope to succeed at punting on horses?) Ultimately, it isn’t just the horse that has got to be 100%, but the serious punters’ readiness to go racing, do the studying and be as prepared as he can that’s another crucial factor.: they can’t publish that in the Racing Post.I believe it’s standard practice in some high profile racing countries (eg Hong Kong) for horses’ weights to be published alongside the kind of info that we get as standard – eg headgear etc. They apparently regard it as quaint and bizarre that we don’t do this.
Get to a few meets now and then, maybe 5 each per flat and NH season, but not often enough. Has long been a gripe that no terrestial TV channel ever gives decent time to paddock views (has been getting less and less in fact, currently down to about 30 secs or so) – and that only given 5 secs before the off, so no time to get on yer picks – useless
If you are not a racegoer, I think there’s some terminology that you often hear from the SIS commentators pre-race, especially when it comes to two year old races. For example, "Looked a bit backward in the ring" or "looks as though it’ll come on for the run" .
I would imagine other posters might know of a few other comments.- Total Posts 17716
Is there not room in the market for a firm to exploit this gap? If I had the money I would set up a T.V station broadcasting the horse as it arrives to the racecourse, the horse in pre-parade ring along with interviews and the horse in the parade ring. As part of this service offer the offical wieghts alongside the horse’s name on the screen? If the service took a big hit then I would sell it to the BBC and ATR/RUK
I don’t think the suggestion is that a horse needs to hard trained for every outing. Merely a case of putting the information out there. It will obviously work better in NH where horses wouldn’t be changing so much physically and you can see a horse is 20 kilos heavier for his reappearance than when he won twice the previous season. That would be a better scenario than having to listen to ‘He’ll come on for the run but is fit enough to do himself justice.’
Absolutely. Nail on the head.
I would love for horse weights to be published everytime they ran, then people would quickly realise it is a waste of time and stop whingeing about it.
Thin and fit are two completely different things, some horses actually put on weight as they get fitter.
Horses also change from year to year, so what could have been a ‘winning weight’ for a horse one year, could be completely irrelevant the next year.
Some horses don’t need to be fit to win, if they won when well in the weight of the horse would again be irrelevant.I disagree.
If a horse wins a race in November, when it weighed 550kg, you might swerve it in January, if it’s recorded weight at the track is only 520kg.
It’s not meant to be the Holy Grail – it’s just an extra bit of info that might help determine race-fitness, without being an absolute measure.
You’re kidding yourselves on if you think there’s an aswer to this one. As Cheekster pointed out some are growing, appetites change etc., so forget weighing them.
Some horses are impossible to get fit at home, Some are higly strung and their motabalism helps get the to peak condition quicker.
There are 1000 reasons why horses run differently one day to another and not being 100% fit is only one of them
You can take things too far and I think this thread is asking too much.
Be as well not running anything and just post the results up……all the favourites won today again
Let’s take one example of a horse racing while not 100% right.
Katchit winner of the Champion Hurdle trained by Alan King.
I for one suspected he was being trained with one thing in mind last season. Didn’t take a genius to work out he was running away below his best form.
Alan King knew the one thing against Katchit was his size and the lack of scope to improve. From there he did the wisest thing and hatwas not to rush the horse by letting him come to himself gradually. A few weeks before the race he came righ back to his best and went on and won the most imporatnt hurdle race of the season.
Had Alan King pushed the horse to peak fitness months before it could have most likely hindered his developement. Whatever the man did the right thing and did what he set out to do. Excellent piece of training IMO
Had Katchit been a different type of horse Alan King wold have trained him accordingly…….in other words did his job to the bes of his ability.
I find that side of racing both intregueing and interesting. I would hate it to change into some cardboard cut out game, where we knew everything before it happened
………………any comment about Kingy’s handling of Katchit this season, Fists?
You are without doubt the master of the art of after-timing.
Colin
Amazing you have come up with another one liner or was it two?…..
You will be giving new member and some old ones I after time and just make things up.
read it and weep
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