January 7, 2007 at 05:47 #663GlennParticipant
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Can anyone give me an idea of average horse body weights (not the weight the jockey carries, the weight of the horse itself) for thoroughbreds by age and sex?
I know many countries weigh horses before races but googleing isn’t helping much. DOes anyone have a link to past performances in countries that include horse weights?January 7, 2007 at 07:39 #35422
Random sample for Hong Kong horses on October 1st 2006 by age:
AGE WEIGHT (SAMPLE)<br>3yo…1074 (15)<br>4yo…1088 (57)<br>5yo…1090 (65)<br>6yo….1078 (49)<br>7yo…1098 (29)<br>8yo…1116 (9)<br>9yo…1072 (5)
I also sorted by rating band and by trip of most recent race, but not by sex.
I have not yet discovered an easier way of extracting this information than by going to the HKJC website ( http://www.hkjc.com/english/hrc/hindex.asp ) and pulling it off manually (Horse racing: horses: each horse’s individual record).
Much less apparent correlation between weight and age/ability/trip than I had thought, but this may be complicated by the fact (I believe) that longer distance races tend to be contested by better and older horses, thus off-setting the lighter build usually associated with "stayers".
I’d be interested in your thoughts/findings on this subject.January 7, 2007 at 07:42 #35423
RATING<br>21-30……1086 (16)<br>31-40……1054 (18)<br>41-50……1075 (48)<br>51-60……1077 (35)<br>61-70……1100 (42)<br>71-80……1122 (20)<br>81-90……1085 (19)<br>91-100….1117 (18)<br>101-110…1071 (9)<br>111-120…1106 (3)<br>121 plus…1066 (1)
By trip of last race<br>TRIP<br>1000…….1070 (22)<br>1200…….1102 (58)<br>1400…….1088 (53)<br>1600…….1084 (39)<br>1650…….1089 (34)<br>1800…….1060 (13)<br>2000…….1119 (5)<br>2200…….1044 (3)<br>2400…….1050 (2)
Weights in pounds<br>January 7, 2007 at 08:03 #35424
Dunno if site will have any data your after but try
<br>Try Googling Australian horse racingJanuary 7, 2007 at 08:27 #35425
thus off-setting the lighter build usually associated with stayers
Might be way off here and probably am
<br>Would size offset body weight, ie: a Springer Spaniel, is smaller and more stocky than a Greyhound but their weight would not be that far apart
A stayer would be more slender/athletic, longer,taller than a sprinter but maybe not far apart in weight
(Edited by empty wallet at 8:32 am on Jan. 7, 2007)January 7, 2007 at 08:46 #35426
btw, just wondering, what is the point of the research, when horses weight info in this part of the world is unavailable to the publicJanuary 7, 2007 at 09:56 #35427
I suppose I should have written "usually thought to be associated with stayers". I expected the data to "prove" this but it has not in any clear and unambiguous way. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
I also put "stayers" in inverted commas as it could be argued that what we are essentially looking at are different types of sprinters/milers, with the vast majority of racing in HK being between 5f and 8.25f. This is arguably too narrow a range for the phenomenon (if it exists) to manifest itself properly.
I don’t know why Glenn is looking into this. Personally, I was researching an article in which I was going to repeat my call for weighing of horses to be used in UK.
I was also seeking to explain to my own satisfaction some minor fluctuations in the crucial pounds-per-length issue. I thought (and still feel to a degree) that they are explained by similar fluctuations in the average weights of the horses themselves.
The basic C/D formula that appears to approximate pounds-per-length (it is obviously more complicated than that) might make more sense if C was not a constant but a derivative of horse-and-jockey weight combined.January 7, 2007 at 10:23 #35428seabirdParticipant
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Obviuosly it varies, but from memory, Alan King’s jumpers (horses not sweaters) weighed in at around 400+ kgs.
ColinJanuary 7, 2007 at 10:42 #35429
Overall, the minimum weight was 858lb and the maximum was 1302lb, which is a big difference.
<1000lb 5.7%<br>1000lb-1099lb 56.3%<br>1100lb-1199lb 33.2%<br>>1199lb 4.8%
Average is 1087.5lb or 493.3kgJanuary 7, 2007 at 12:03 #35430SalMember
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The HKJC website is very instructive in showing just how much horses’ weights differ. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â One 4-y-o filly can weigh 100lb less than another, but not show any lessÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â (or more) ability.
Even examining race day weights for each individual can prove inconclusive, with animals capable of putting up similarly rated performances at quite different weights.
As horses mature their ideal weight will change. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â To get any real benefit from studying horse weight it should be measured very regularly, and over a long enough period and covering enough races for a pattern to be established. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â I’m not sure that comparing the racing weight for a particular horse against an average (even age/sex averages) would prove a guide to fitness.January 7, 2007 at 12:25 #35431gambleParticipant
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They will never weigh horses in this country<br> the subject is very much like the old going stick.
Of couse important is how the weight is distributed<br> aft or fore.<br> A hoss with a big bum and short legs<br> is perfect for a concentric course the likes of Frankfurt.
flatcapgamble.. an old sea dog once weighed a horse and for his trouble was kicked out to sea minus his macintoshJanuary 7, 2007 at 12:29 #35432
I am sure, Sal.
A horse’s absolute weight (compared to an average) would not be any guide to its fitness in itself.
There are two main aspects to this as far as I can tell. One is the absolute weight of the horse. The other is that weight compared to the given horse’s optimum weight. As Sal says, that optimum will not be a constant.
We don’t expect a horse’s ability to stay constant from the start of its career to the end, and we shouldn’t expect its optimum weight to either.
The difficulty of the former does not cause people to give up on trying to establish roughly what ability a horse possesses at any given time – indeed, that is the intrinsic challenge of horseracing – and I don’t see why difficulties with the latter should be considered insurmountable either.
(Edited by Prufrock at 12:31 pm on Jan. 7, 2007)January 7, 2007 at 13:38 #35433GlennParticipant
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Thanks for the info gents.January 7, 2007 at 18:36 #35434cormack15Keymaster
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I have long been an advocate of weighing horses. The usual lack of consideration for the interest of the paying public has been the major stumbling block. Courses are more interested in catering for the needs of the day-tripping, drink-guzzling moronic element than the genuine racing enthusiast. !January 7, 2007 at 19:23 #35435davidjohnsonMember
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For those that advocating weighing of horses I just don’t understand the practicalities of it. When should they be weighed? When they arrive at the course? If that is the case then how do you put that information across to the public? Before the start of racing? But some horses don’t arrive before the first race.
Prufrock’s data seems to show that there is litte correlation between trip/age and weight so I’m not sure what ‘edge’ it would give racegoers in terms of assessing a horses fitness that being at the track and looking in the paddock to see what is as fat as a pig doesn’t.
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