- This topic has 86 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote: from Prufrock on 8:32 pm on Jan. 11, 2007[br]Do you know Rob, robert99?
Pru,
Only as a contributor to Ausrace, as Empty Wallet has kindly pointed out.
Below is reply from Paul Struthers of HRA on the issues I mentioned above. <br>Any points of issue anyone wants to raise / add before I reply
"Dear Mr Ford
Thank you for your email and please accept my apologies for the delay in replying to you.
The HRA has no plan and no timetable to introduce the Trackus system on all UK race tracks, although as you are no doubt aware the BHB and HRA have worked extensively with Turftrax who have an almost identical speed sensing system in place on a large number of tracks.
Having viewed the YouTube footage and also browsed the Trackus website, it is a very impressive system but, as far as I can make out, is one that is used solely to enhance the racegoer’s experience and I found no suggestion that it was used for integrity.
Whilst I can see some use for the timing data when deciding whether a horse should be disqualified – and this is something our Disciplinary Department have considered utilising the Turftrax data for – I see little use for the replay function in deciding on ‘non-triers’.
The animated race cannot portray whatever action the jockey is taking, nor can it portray the actual behaviour of a horse – only the video footage of the real action can do this. Any action the jockey takes – or fails to take – is essential in deciding whether the rules have been breached and that is why we would always rely on the real race footage, although there is an argument that the timing data could assist in running and riding enquiries.
With regards to the issue of data rights, I have asked my colleagues at the BHB and they inform me that Turftrax own the rights, which is why they sell the data via their website. However, I am sure in time there will be negotiations as to whether Turfrax need to pay racing (perhaps the owner, perhaps a central body) for those rights.
Having seen the Trackus system in operation I have no doubt it would be of huge interest to racing fans in this country, and the market for speed sensing is not a closed shop. However it would be for racecourses and racecourse groups to take a commercial decision whether to adopt the system over here or indeed introduce a similar system/service via Turfrax.
On the issue of horse’s weights, this has been discussed at length by the BHB and I understand is still under discussion with the wider industry. As an occasional greyhound racegoer I am aware of their use of weights but was unaware of a rule that could prevent a dog from racing, and even if there was I would not envisage a similar rule in horseracing even if horse’s weights are published. It would, however, be additional information that the punter would have at their fingertips.
With kind regards
Paul
Paul Struthers <br>Public Relations Manager, Horseracing Regulatory Authority <br>151 Shaftesbury Avenue, London WC2H 8AL <br>DDI: 020 7189 3862 Mobile: 07966 590105"<br>
Before todays race Gay Kellaway stated Artic Desert had put on weight since joining her and went on to run a very creditable race to finish 3rd
<br>Stuart Machin stated after the race that AD would come on for the run, I presume thinking that the weight gained means the horse was not quite fit
<br>Do those wanting to know horse weights also believe AD will come on for the run?
<br>
(Edited by empty wallet at 4:22 pm on Jan. 22, 2007)
Does it?
<br>Then how come the horse ran a very similar race when just touched off by Prince Tum Tum 2 starts back and was only beaten 1L on it’s last start for A Balding, beaten only 1/2 L by Stagnite in July
(Edited by empty wallet at 4:29 pm on Jan. 22, 2007)
No point arguing toss Grass when you know full well that info is not available
<br>However, using logic shows that the extra body weight the trainer stated had gained made no difference to it’s run today or it’s run behind Prince Tum Tum when compared to a previous effort when lighter in bodyweight only 4 weeks earlier
<br>knowing it was heavier would have, like S Machin presumes, makes you think it was unfit, when these efforts clearly show it is not
(Edited by empty wallet at 6:25 pm on Jan. 22, 2007)
Grass
I’m all for punters having info, but what benefit horse weight would be to punters i just cannot see tbh
I look forward to seeing data any that proves otherwise
Quote: from empty wallet on 6:55 pm on Jan. 22, 2007[br]
what benefit horse weight would be to punters i just cannot see tbh<br>
Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it?
Until racing weights are made available surely it’s unwise, nay impossible, to declare an unequivocal ‘yes’ or ‘no’
There is a tenuous link between weight/energy expenditure/fitness; plenty of subjective conjecture but little objective fact.
Gimme some truth
As stated Drone i await the evidence, i’ve tried to find out about this issue, but cannot find any evidence or anyone stating they have found any evidence to contradict my belief that the info is of no benefit to punters
HK syndicate bettors are a bit vague on the variables they use in their computer models, but i’ve not see one article referring to body weight yet
(Edited by empty wallet at 8:34 pm on Jan. 22, 2007)
Hi<br>Firstly, let me state that I am not a horsey person. However, today a colleague who breeds Cleveland Bays gave me a demonstration of using a commercially made simple tape measure type device to ascertain the weight of one of his stable confined horses. I only looked in over the stable door, that was close enough to see how easy the process was carried out.
If its so simple and apparantly an accurate measure of a horse’s weight, why can’t racehorses be weighed and results made public as appropriate ?
Certainly, my colleague relies upon this method and says once initial length mesurments have been taken  as per a formula, (printed on the tape device)  subsequent girth measurements can ascetain fluctuations in weight accurately.
Any thoughts ?
<br>
Alex,
The tape measure method is quite a good one if you only have one or two horses and you are controlling feeding amounts. But if you want to weigh horses quickly and accurately a horse weighbridge is relatively much cheaper for weighing say 100 horses on race day. Possibly some horses would get quite upset if some stranger started putting a tape around their middles in the paddock.
lots of racehorse trainers weigh there horses, but they dont see it has a public thing….Paul nicholls and Ed dunlop are just 2 I can name (it is midnight!) most yards have high tech weighing machines….
Would have thought it would be totally impractical and what would be the odds on the public being informed of the weights before the race? We’re lucky if we get jockey changes and overweights before the stalls open as it is.
The only way this could work effectively for the public to benefit is to make the trainer declare the horse’s weight at the same time he makes the final declaration for the horse. This would allow plenty of time to print the weight on the racecards. As the horses arrive at the course they are quickly weighed at the entrance to the racecourse stables and any variation of say, more than 5kgs above or below declared weight will be announced to the public well before the race.
Naps, that’s probably the most sensible and practical suggestion I’ve heard about the logistics of weighing.
However, I’ve still to be convinced that:<br>1) The information will have practical benefits in the majority of cases.  I can see the advantages for mature, seasoned geldings, running regularly over similar distances, where an ‘ideal’ constant could be measured.  But for growing horses, those returning from long lay-offs, fillies in and out of season, and those who don’t run frequently, I think it will be difficult to establish a pattern that would make weights in any way meaningful.<br>2) It would be worth the expense at this moment in time.  Racing has other, larger issues to deal with.  Can’t be too expensive to weigh a few horses?  Every course would need a weighbridge installing, or enough portables would be needed to cover bank holidays, plus maintenance and transport costs.  Staff costs to monitor the weighing.  A system needed for declaration of weights, holding the data and releasing it to the media.
If racing gets a windfall, great, spend it on super-duper gadgets so we can pretend to be like Hong Kong.  But weighing isn’t an answer the major problems with racing’s integrity, or even the answer to the handicap puzzle of the 2.40 at Southwell.
I agree that this would not solve the integrity issues but I do believe knowing a horse’s racing weight in comparison to his previous weight when running up to his best form would be of huge assistance to the punter. For instance, if punters knew that Gardasee’s weight on his comeback run 2 days ago was 20kgs above his normal racing weight, they wouldn’t have backed him in from 11-2 to 4-1. To me, the knowledge of a horse’s weight is just as useful as knowing a horse is wearing a tongue tie. There is only so much a trainer can do to get a horse fit at home and I am quite sure it would be to the public’s benefit to know when a horse is being raced to ‘bring him on’ . One glance at the horse’s weight will give you this information.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.