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Sir Percy’s win was overshadowed and some of the gloss had been taken away from his victory, rightly so in my opinion
Thats nonsense frankly. Why "rightly"? I doubt whether HN would have won and frankly these things happen
Frankly some of the guff I am reading above appears just a little bit over defensive I would say… Frankly I suspect that there was a doubt of some kind, but percentages were weighed up. KF clearly had something on his mind in the stalls and his blaming the course bit looks suspiciously like deflecting from the issue. But whats happened has happened and we will probably never know the full truth (although there have been some forthright opinions from some horsemen)
This stuff about AOB and KF being more lin love with horses than anyone else is based on what? I would suggest they are no more or less than most trainers and jockeys.
They are a great team of course, but this sentimentality is just a bit silly
Quote: from clivex on 10:09 am on June 6, 2006[br]Frankly some of the guff I am reading above appears just a little bit over defensive I would say… Frankly I suspect that there was a doubt of some kind, but percentages were weighed up. KF clearly had something on his mind in the stalls and his blaming the course bit looks suspiciously like deflecting from the issue. But whats happened has happened and we will probably never know the full truth (although there have been some forthright opinions from some horsemen)
This stuff about AOB and KF being more lin love with horses than anyone else is based on what? I would suggest they are no more or less than most trainers and jockeys.
They are a great team of course, but this sentimentality is just a bit silly
Clivex,
Do you think if something was amiss KF would have pulled him up before entering the straight?
JohnJ.
Quote: from clivex on 2:27 pm on June 6, 2006[br]Johnj
Probably, but not sure what your point is
Clive,
Not sure what your previous point is to be honest.  Are you suggesting that KF and AoB ran the horse and chose to ignore that the horse may have been unfit to race? If that is the case, Fallon must be a very brave man to sit on a horse going over 30 miles an hour in probably one of the roughest races on the flat calendar. I’m sure he wanted to risk being ejected from an unsound horse and shipped on to the ground to be trampled on by three or four horses going hell for leather……
Get a grip…..
I havent suggested anything either way. I think there was "something" but what it was or how serious or not that was, ive no idea…
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My sympathy goes to all at Coolmore and Ballydoyle for their loss and may Horatio Nelson rest in peace.
On the 16/5/2003 Danehill died, he was a good Sire but had not, as far as I know, become a Sire of Sires.
Since 2000 the only group 1 races for 3 year olds and above in England and Ireland between 8f and 12f won by a horse sired by a son of Danehill were won by Where or When and Speciosa both at 8f.The Sire being Danehill Dancer.
Danehill himself has had in this time 3 year old Group 1 winners, the Great Rock of Gibraltar, George Washington, Oratorio, North Light and the Fillies Banks Hill and Punctilious.
At present no one can say that any of the males above will become good stallions carrying on Danehills bloodline and producing Classic and other group 1 winners.
Last year as 2 year olds from his last crop Coolmore raced quite a few Danehill colts, George Washington ,Horatio Nelson, Ivan Denisovitch,Dylan Thomas,Aussie Rules Altius, and Marcus Andronicus being those that achieved Group wins.
However I would imagine that it’s the performance as a 3 year old that determines whether Owners/Breeders will want to send the best mares to be covered by a stallion.<br> The pressure is then on to win the Classics, and the other major Group 1’s, so that Danehills bloodline will continue to be a major force in the breeding of the Thoroughbred.
The desire to achieve these goals and succeed puts pressure on all concerned and in the pursuit of excellence the risk of accidents occurring becomes greater because of trying to go that bit further.<br>
Threenaps, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with that one.  Danehill doesn’t desperately need more Classic winners boosting his reputation to ensure his sons can succeed at stud.  He has astounding success as a sire of sires in Australia, and the stallion sons from the first wave of quality mares he covered in Europe are only just coming through (Danehill Dancer was from before he got famous).  You’re right that Coolmore have put a great deal of faith in the Danehill line, but for the last couple of years it has been the hottest trend for breeders, whether or not Horatio Nelson won the Derby. ÂÂÂ
There are enough quality representatives racing at the moment – Dylan Thomas of course was in the same race – to not need to unnecessarily risk one of their horses just to bolster stud values. ÂÂÂ
With you there Trackside. I’ve watched it several times since and whilst the angle isn’t perfect he seemed to be travelling smoothly and although not looking likely to win he didn’t display any symptoms of lameness. He suddenly seemed to hit a bad bit of ground and stumbled. Conspiracy theorists will inevitably make much of it, especially as today is 6/6/06 (and so far the world hasn’t ended – well not here in France anyway).
<br>It’s all irrelevant now but even though he was under pressure when it happened, you just never know with Fallon as you hardly ever see him coming with a double-handful because he is always kidding the horses along.<br>
To my mind he did look held, however if you remember him as a two year old he never travelled on the bridle through his races, and always seemed to be pushed along.
JohnJ.
Based on HN’s runs in both the 2000 Guineas and Derby, it looks to me like he never trained on so he never ran to the level which he looked capable of as a 2yo.
I find it highly unlikely that APO’B would have let him run if he thought he was unsound. It makes no sense, either commercially or as a trainer.
clivex – I don’t think anyone is trying to say that O’Brien and Fallon care MORE about their horses than other trainers/jockeys but rather that they don’t care any LESS about them because of the breeding side of the Coolmore operation.
<br>Thank you Sal,<br>my horse racing knowledge only goes back to the year 2000 when I got interested in Flat Racing and I have no knowledge at all about breeding in Australia.
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