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  • #12292
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Would appreciate any links or info any TRF’er might have on Hong Kong racing. I want to learn more. I’m particularly interested in how the class structure works over there and if handicapping scales are equivalent to those used in the UK. Thanks.

    #242548
    tbracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    Hi Cav, http://www.hkjc.com/english/hrc/hindex.asp is the Hong Kong Jockey Club site,

    #242550
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Thanks tb. Had a look already. Cant find any info on the class structure of racing in HK on there though,

    Take a look at this http://www.hkjc.com/english/formguide/s … RaceNum=01

    These guys are on a different level.

    #242552
    Goldikova
    Member
    • Total Posts 1537

    They’re probably on a different medication aswell.

    #242553
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    They’re probably on a different medication aswell.

    Yawn

    :roll:

    #242554
    tbracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    Alot of emphasis on pace! I tend to do something similair drawing a pace map up to predict possible race shape. Seem to have a far better handle on their racing than us

    *waves at the BHA*

    #242597
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    Cav,

    The first part of the 2009/10 programme (Sep – Dec) has just been released:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/news/news_2009080422555.htm

    Group races for the whole 2009/10 season listed here:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/news/news_2009080422552.htm

    The complete horse population is rated here:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racing/mcs0 … ?type=CLAS

    Previously raced private purchases brought into HK have to satisfy these ability thresholds (HKJC brings in the rest):

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/racinginfo/ … tieria.htm

    HKJC head of handicapping is Nigel Gray, which should give you an idea how the figures are arrived at:

    http://www.thejoyofhorses.com/march99/gray.htm

    http://www.britishhorseracing.com/insid … tem=003434

    best regards

    wit

    #242600
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Many thanks Wit, very much appreciated. :D

    #242649
    Salselon
    Member
    • Total Posts 883

    The standard and detail of information is incredible, and is an interesting prospect for those that enjoy the analytical side of horse-racing.

    Would anyone be able to recommend any books on Hong Kong racing, that would give an insight into the current scene?

    #242673
    robert99
    Participant
    • Total Posts 899

    There is a review for Global Racing at
    http://horseracing.about.com/od/bookrev … 12209a.htm

    What is missing on the website?

    #242698
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    Salselon,

    if there is such a book, i’ve yet to encounter it. i agree with robert99 – most of what anyone would need is on the HKJC site.

    one way to get an insight into the current scene – in addition to noting the leaderboards for trainers and jockeys (Douglas Whyte is the local flat equivalent of AP McCoy), and looking through the archived press-releases – might be to go here:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/press/showcase.asp

    where you will find not only videos of every race for the past 6 seasons, but also – for the previous few meetings – buttons for the previews of those individual races made on Racing To Win. (season ended July 1, restarts September)

    Racing To Win is a 60 min TV preview prog that goes out on ATV locally the night before each race-meeting. The English version is presented by the Aussies retained by HKJC as English-language race-callers and pundits. Cantonese and Putonghua versions are transmitted on other ATV channels with pundits in those languages.

    The same teams also do live TV broadcasts on the day / night (Trackside Live) – Cantonese on an ATV broadcast channel / the other two on cable channels locally.

    HKJC itself employs them all and produces all the programmes.

    The following page is for the live-ish internet radio versions of those live TV broadcasts, for those outside HK. When racing is not on, the page hosts an archive of the most recent live broadcast – all 5 hours or so of it:

    http://www.hkjc.com/english/press/live.asp

    If you view/ listen to a few of the above, you’ll get a pretty good feel for the racing experience away from the track.

    as regards other info sources, the main English-language one is the Racing Post section within the Sport section of the South China Morning Post, which is free to view on the internet. there is an added paid subscription service for its separate racecards, analysis and tips.

    http://www.scmp.com

    turn of the century, when Will Hill were betting on HK, Timeform produced cards for HK. but that stopped after a few years, restoring SCMP as basically the only race-info alternative in town to HKJC.

    best regards

    wit

    #242721
    Salselon
    Member
    • Total Posts 883

    There is a review for Global Racing at
    http://horseracing.about.com/od/bookrev … 12209a.htm

    What is missing on the website?

    Thanks for the link. Nothing missing on the website, just I prefer a good book to spending even more time on my laptop. :)

    #242722
    Salselon
    Member
    • Total Posts 883

    Wit,

    Thank you very much for all the link – much appreciated.

    #242729
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Two more questions…

    Can a punter bet into the HK pools from abroad online?
    Any info on what the percentage takeouts are?

    Thanks.

    #242755
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    Can a punter bet into the HK pools from abroad online?

    First the bad news.

    The basic answer is "no". The HK pools themselves can be bet into only from HK, even if you are HK resident with a HK betting account who happens to be on an overseas trip.

    Any adult within HK can bet in cash with HKJC.

    If you are HK resident you can also have a phone and internet e-win account, and your computer will probably be able to access it from abroad.

    The effective barrier comes with, if you win, the rules say you won’t be paid out – and you have to register by showing up in person with passport / HKID to collect the bigger wins, so they have the means to find out for those.

    Co-mingling with US pools was approved by the lawmakers in 2007 but has yet to be implemented.

    HKJC has spoken with GB, France, and other totes about possible pool mingling but the problems are a) HK government is very cautious about what it will permit HKJC to do, and b) there are issues around double taxation.

    Even if HKJC itself is 100 per cent for extending the ambit of its operations in any material direction, it always depends on getting permission from the HK Home Affairs Department to put it into effect. That department is run by very cautious politicians / civil servants who don’t want to make waves with local anti-gambling factions.

    For example, it took a hell of a fight just to get 5 extra racing days approved for the coming season. And HKJC were not permitted to put on a simulcast of Sacred Kingdom’s run in the Golden Jubilee because they had already used up their allocation of 20 simulcast races for the season.

    Now the good news for those outside the jurisdiction of HK.

    There are at least two Aussie bookies – both stock-exchange quoted and both with UK clients – that will take bets on HK racing and will pay out at their own slightly enhanced ("super") versions of HK odds, or if you wish at their own board prices.

    There’s Mark Read’s

    http://www.iasbet.com/site/racing/racin … y=HK&date=

    and Con Kafataris’

    http://centrebet.com/cust?action=GoRacing

    You won’t be able to do HK exotics, like the famed jackpot triple trio, but you can do the standard bets – win. place, quinella, quinella place.

    Any info on what the percentage takeouts are?

    Rule of thumb is 17.5 per cent on standard bets and 25 per cent on exotics.

    You’ll maybe see some other figures quoted (eg effective rate of 15.7 instead of the 17.5 where rebate applies), but I’m happy to go with this presentation by the HKJC Head of Betting Services:

    http://www.horseracingintfed.com/resour … _2007E.pdf

    If you want to get into the technicalities – including the minimum guaranteed sum that HKJC must pay the government each year, and which it has had to dip into its reserves to do on occasion – you’ll need to get into the Betting Duty Ordinance (may have to add manually the end bit of the url below for the link to jump):

    http://www.legislation.gov.hk/blis_ind. … *100*108.1

    best regards

    wit

    #242760
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Really appreciate all the info Wit.

    One last question regarding the 2 firms that offer prices on HK racing. Are they acting as agents for the HKJC similar to Betfair for the UK Tote, or do they stand the liabilities themselves?

    #242762
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    Best I know, the Aussie bookies stand the liabilities themselves and have no connection with the HKJC, who would regard them much in the same way as say the BHA will regard William Hill (Gibraltar) – except HKJC won’t accept sponsorship from them :wink:

    I think Colin Cameron’s book says Betfair have some kind of agreement with HKJC, but I’ve not heard or seen anything of it from the HK side.

    If HKJC was to appoint an agent in another country, on past evidence it would likely be a similar official pool operator – "first-mover" selling point in privatising the Tote perhaps ? – but maybe Betfair can persuade HKJC – and perhaps more importantly the HK government – otherwise.

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