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That is true about Mr. Findly, Rory.
But looking at my Timeform Perspective comments last time out (3rd start before a handicap mark):
"…again shaped as if better to come, now qualified for nurseries, reported by her rider to be still green, not knocked about"
Would not say there was too much wrong with her first two starts, just too green to do herself justice. Promising better to come. That may sound bad, but when you consider Ms JH’s two year olds always need a run or two to get fit and ready. Her best horse Cheka being a rare first time out winner last season. Whenever a two year old from this stable run fairly well first or second time out, it’s worth considering next time.
The Timeform rating for the race yesterday was not that good. One of the worst in the field. But the "p" for improvement likely said plenty. The handicapper may have tried to give it a little more weight than it’s "form" was technically worth.
Value Is EverythingThat is true about Mr. Findly, Rory.
But looking at my Timeform Perspective comments last time out (3rd start before a handicap mark):
"…again shaped as if better to come, now qualified for nurseries, reported by her rider to be still green, not knocked about"
Would not say there was too much wrong with her first two starts, just too green to do herself justice. Promising better to come. That may sound bad, but when you consider Ms JH’s two year olds always need a run or two to get fit and ready. Her best horse Cheka being a rare first time out winner last season. Whenever a two year old from this stable run fairly well first or second time out, it’s worth considering next time.
The Timeform rating for the race yesterday was not that good. One of the worst in the field. But the "p" for improvement likely said plenty. The handicapper may have tried to give it a little more weight than it’s "form" was technically worth.
Get your head out of your hole and quit the Timeform robotics please. Its very, very tiresome.
What really is galling is the cheats (imo) walk away with the gold, whilst the honest people get feck all
That’s an interesting point CR.
I’ve never once viewed it from the position of the ‘honest’ connections, in this way. Rather, my view has been based on whether or not I like the people involved in the coup and whether I had any money on the outcome, either way – in this case if I knew nothing else I would just have thought ‘good old Harry’ – as I like him.
It does make you wonder whether there’s any point of being honest (mug-owner) in this game….
Ironically, I don’t think it pays to try to pull the wool (or blindfold) over the handicappers eyes, especially with a view to a betting coup.
When an owner or trainer becomes known for this, bookmakers and punters gat to know. So usually the bookies / exchange price is lower because of it. Therefore it is almost impossible to make a profit from those handicap coups.
When Linda Ramsden was training, her horses usually started rediculously short for their form. Being very difficult to make an over all profit. There might be the odd coup that pays off, but not enough. The same goes for Tony Martin in Ireland. His handicappers often start a false price at Cheltenham because bookies are scared. the way he campaigns his horses, imo they don’t win the amount of races they should.
Value Is EverythingIt does make you wonder whether there’s any point of being honest (mug-owner) in this game….
I’m sure that’s a question Mr R C Bond is asking himself this morning pompete. Hopefully his nice horse can win a decent prize in the near future. They both deserve it.
The horse has found 15/20lbs improvement – within 15 days and in very similar circumstances.
.. I don’t believe that this is an integrity issue as such, more of a lack of proper information.
If a horse weighs on average 1200lbs and it’s body weight can fluctuate +/-2% that puts it’s normal weight between 1176lbs – 1224lbs. Publishing the actual weights would go a long way to explain why this information is so important. Maybe the BHA is privvy to this information and that’s why they never ask any awkward questions when these apparent fiddles occur .. just a thought!
Any racing country that takes integrity remotely seriously considers this information paramount.
In Japan’s version of Portman Park they publish how much each horse weighs in the form guide.
Their virtual punters are kept more informed than punters here betting on the real thing!
That is true about Mr. Findly, Rory.
But looking at my Timeform Perspective comments last time out (3rd start before a handicap mark):
"…again shaped as if better to come, now qualified for nurseries, reported by her rider to be still green, not knocked about"
Would not say there was too much wrong with her first two starts, just too green to do herself justice. Promising better to come. That may sound bad, but when you consider Ms JH’s two year olds always need a run or two to get fit and ready. Her best horse Cheka being a rare first time out winner last season. Whenever a two year old from this stable run fairly well first or second time out, it’s worth considering next time.
The Timeform rating for the race yesterday was not that good. One of the worst in the field. But the "p" for improvement likely said plenty. The handicapper may have tried to give it a little more weight than it’s "form" was technically worth.
Get your head out of your hole and quit the Timeform robotics please. Its very, very tiresome.
Am just trying to put some evidence in to the thread Cav. Without evidence nothing can be proven, and it comes accross as "I didn’t back the winner so the game must be bent". I don’t think we are that far apart on this particular case Cav. I did not see Yurituni’s last race with my own eyes, so can only go by a form book.
Yes, to prove a case you need to investigate. Yet you call people "cheats" without putting forward much, if any evidence. That is wrong (imo) and is why I said "the case is not proven".
Judging from the language you have used on this thread Cav, think you should stop talking out of that orifice. Your language is tiresome, obsessed with body parts
Value Is EverythingI played matchups at Sha Tin and Happy Valley all last season and came out the right side. Hand on heart, I’d say horse weight was of zero predictive worth to me. They can fluctuate a lot and mean precisely nothing formwise. Just personally, I’d say they are worth a whole lot less than people think.
My own hobby horse is bleeding but that’s another day.
Ok so I backed Bond Fastrac, call it pocket talk if you really feel the need.
Findlays horse, hands and heels first time out, persisted with over a patently too short 5f second time up and never spotted 2 Mondays ago on its final run before handicap mark assessment. Beaten a combined 19 lengths over sprint distances on its first 3 runs.
Meanwhile the owners of Bond Fastrac campaign their horse honestly and he wins his maiden impressively (imo) at Ripon on his second run.
Result – The honest connections have to concede 18lbs to the "improver" who hasn’t tried a yard until today imo and get done on the line. They must be gutted, I wouldn’t blame them.
Pull the other one Harry…Gambler my ar*e.
You don’t give any evidence yet call people all the names under the sun. Let me put the case for the defence.
"Hands and heels first time out", what’s wrong with that? Many, many debutants get a hands and heels ride first time out. Quite rightly for future career prospects, it is important to enjoy her first run.
"Persisted with over a PATENTLY short 5f second time". If it was "patently" how come she only had to go another furlong over a very sharp track; to win?
"Beaten a COMBINED 19 lengths" means nothing. "Over SPRINT distances" the offending race was 6 furlongs too.
"Bond Fastrac, campaign their horse HONESTLY" well, his debut was "hands and heels". Exactly the thing you say was wrong with Yuraidiot’s debut.
"Hasn’t tried a yard" Where is your evidence?
"Pull the other one Harry, gambler my a…" This is a case of simple jealousy your honour.
Do think when you call people ofensive names Cav, you need to be backed up by EVIDENCE.
Value Is EverythingAny racing country that takes integrity remotely seriously considers this information paramount.
In Japan’s version of Portman Park they publish how much each horse weighs in the form guide.
Their virtual punters are kept more informed than punters here betting on the real thing!
Any racing which is based on all the horses carrying different weights so they finish at the same time will naturally be inherently corrupt.
The sooner we go to a claiming race system or implement rules on improving horses, start banning the fiddlers etc the sooner we can get back to straight racing like the rest of the world seems to have.
Agreed. Sadly the way claiming races are framed in this country at present makes them out of bounds to most.
In the average claimer, the beaten up old gelding at the end of its days is usually thrown in. If it’s the ‘stable pet’ to boot you’ll likely be beaten up if you claim it!
There’s just no way a £10k filly, with paddock value included in taht £10k, can run as fast as an ageing £10k gelding but little is done in terms of penalties/concessions or restricting entrants.
Why don’t we have an overhaul to make these races viable?
The US system is the one that works the best IMO. They’ll all be in for a very similar/identical claiming price.
We could have a 30k prize and £45,000 per horse (equiv of Class 3 at the moment)
£40,000 per horse
£35,000 per horse
£30,000 per horseThis would go down to say £5,000 (similar to the US where there are £2,500 maiden claiming races).
US allowance races are based on how many races you win ie. non-winners of 1 other than a maiden, or non-winners of one in six months or 2 in a year etc.
Would be infinitely better than the current system of triers, non-triers and guessing as to whether X horse is off or not.
Bond Fastrac runs tomorrow at Donny in the 2-35. Lets hope compensation awaits. The horse and his owner deserve it.
If Reg Bond was *that* honest, he’d call one of his horses Bond Egomaniac.
Very droll.
it’s handicapping.= code for bent as duck. we all know te score, everyone has to eat. 
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