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I see Harry Herbert say that they are "seriously considering running him in the Juddmonte International on August 17."
My question is WHY??
This would be the first time running him below 1 mile 4 since loosing his maiden tage at Chester.
Surely there are more suitable options for him in preparing for the Arc???
I think Harbinger is a superb horse, and he could be the best in the world but at a mile and a half not a mile and a quarter against speedier types.
I would have RIP to beat Harbinger any day at any track over 1m2f…..
I think this is a bad idea… although I am going to back him for the Arc so perhaps best he goes the Juddmonte route, gets beat and ends up a better price on Arc day
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Fair enough but I don’t think he can win the Juddmonte against RIP and co i.e speedier types…and bare in mind Dick Turpin too.
Stoute and Highclare are the experts here not me but personally I don’t think Harbinger has the speed for a Juddmonte containing group one mile winners…
They’re seriously considering the International because seriously there are only 3 options – the International, the Irish Champion and the Prix Foy.
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Another point is why doent he have initial entries in The Juddmonte and Irish Champion Stakes???
Some people on here are saying Harbinger is going to be odds on come Arc Day, surely if taking odds on for a horse in the Arc you would like to believe that his team considered him good enough to give him initial entries in these races at the start of the year???
I know success can be unexpected but odds on about a horse who has delivered unexpected success?????
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Harbinger wasn’t 7/4 favourite for the Arc at the start of the season either, Joncol.
I would suggest that connections didn’t consider him to be quick enough to warrant an entry in the Juddmonte. But given how well he travelled at Ascot – had he been short of speed he’d have been under pressure turning in, rather than absolutely cantering – a trip to York would appear to make plenty of sense.
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Harbinger wasn’t 7/4 favourite for the Arc at the start of the season either, Joncol.
I would suggest that connections didn’t consider him to be quick enough to warrant an entry in the Juddmonte. But given how well he travelled at Ascot – had he been short of speed he’d have been under pressure turning in, rather than absolutely cantering – a trip to York would appear to make plenty of sense.
I understand this but my point is in reference to those who feel Harbinger will be a justified odds on shot for Arc day, my point is can you really justify odds on about a horse as you put it who "connections didn’t consider him to be quick enough to warrant an entry in the Juddmonte"
I do realise some horse just improve naturally and sometimes unexpectantly, but I do feel a justified odds on horse should be one who connections have believed in from day one..
Fair enough but I don’t think he can win the Juddmonte against RIP and co i.e speedier types…and bare in mind Dick Turpin too.
Why not? What’s the big fuss about RIP anyway? The horse hasn’t won a race for nearly a year, the horse has never won at 10F in his life. The horse was hammered at Royal Ascot, and was easily picked up at Goodwood (in my opinion).
Yet here’s you thinking he will beat a horse that won one of the most prestigious group one’s in the calendar by half the track
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Fair enough but I don’t think he can win the Juddmonte against RIP and co i.e speedier types…and bare in mind Dick Turpin too.
Why not? What’s the big fuss about RIP anyway? The horse hasn’t won a race for nearly a year, the horse has never won at 10F in his life. The horse was hammered at Royal Ascot, and was easily picked up at Goodwood (in my opinion).
Yet here’s you thinking he will beat a horse that won one of the most prestigious group one’s in the calendar by half the track
Well my point is very simple.
I feel both RIP and Dick Turpin are much speedier mile horses than Harbinger and whilst The Juddmonte is over 1m2f I think the race will suit speedier milers stepping in up in trip rather than a brilliant 1m4f horse stepping down in trip. ie speed will catch him out..
The fact that no initial entries were made for him for a group one 1m2f event also concerns me. I do realise things change and they now feel his is quick enough to run in such a race but for me its the wrong choice..
All Stoute has to do is put a pacemaker in and then the race will be run to suit the 12F horse rather than the 8F horse. It’s quite simple really.
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All Stoute has to do is put a pacemaker in and then the race will be run to suit the 12F horse rather than the 8F horse. It’s quite simple really.
And you don’t think O Brien will have a pacemaker to do the exact same for RIP?
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Considering Stoute doesnt have an entry in the race I think its unlikely they will pay 50k for Harbinger and 50k for a pacemaker to get into the race….
All Stoute has to do is put a pacemaker in and then the race will be run to suit the 12F horse rather than the 8F horse. It’s quite simple really.
And you don’t think O Brien will have a pacemaker to do the exact same for RIP?
Why would AoB want a pacemaker for RIP? A pacemaker would mean the race would be run to suit Harbinger.
Don’t forget that the Juddmonte is over 10 furlongs and 88 yards making it slightly more testing than say the Irish Champion.
The last three winners – Authorized, Duke of Marmalade and Sea the Stars were all top class 12 furlong horses who coped well with the York trip.
It would increase his value as a stallion if he won the Juddmonte and the prizemoney is huge.
OneEye, in running a pacemaker to dictate the pace of a race, that can mean creating a false pace to suit a speed horse as well as a quicker pace to bring out a stablemate’s stamina.
Having said that, you’d expect if you had one of each in a race, the one that wanted to test the stamina of the horses should prevail !!
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I dont see how an Aiden O Brien pacemaker would automatically set the race up to suit Harbinger.
A pacemaker can adopt different styles of pace setting.
If you watch last years Juddmonte, the O Brien team/pacemakers/the way the race was run, nearly got STS beat, well it certainly was the most vunerable STS had looked up to that point and at the one pole the result looked questionable…
I rate STS a better horse than Harbinger, but I also rate RIP a better horse than Mastercraftsman..
Watch it again, they nearly got him beat
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