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The comparison with football is inaccurate.
Football is a spectator’s sport. A commentator in 1959 said about a derby match "if we had Marakana stadium there ‘d be still people left outside" and there was no betting of any kind at the time.
The Football authorities tried to sue the bookies for listing rights but in 2006 EU court ruled against. Strangely enough bookies and monopolies were banded together in that trial.
However bookies are sponsors of some football teams such as Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, whom the German judges forbade to wear shirts with the sponsor’s brand in their friendly last autumn.
So horse racing everywhere is funded by the bookies/tote and no bookie offers betting on horse racing from race courses they have no agreement.
The question is how much, because everything counts.Kempton seem to be taking an interesting line from April 1st at their evening meetings. The prize money on offer matches the tariff, not a penny less, not a penny more. So you have races offering £2562 total prize fund, others on £3543, instead of the more usual round numbers.
I’m not sure whether you’d count that as a victory for the Horsemens Group, but for me it highlights the problem with setting a minimum prize level, whether it’s done by them or by the BHA. It’s all too easy for the track to offer the minimum, knowing that if other tracks follow their example, there’s no competition for runners. And so the absolute minimum becomes accepted as standard, until the next fall in income.
Which is what has happened over the last six years as the BHA minimum level for a 0-85 handicap has dropped from £11,000, to £10,500, to £8,500, to £8,000, then £7,300 and last year £6,500.
Now the BHA no longer dictates a minimum, other than that no flat race can fall below £2250, so some tracks are offering just £5,000 for a 0-85.
AP
- Total Posts 17716
The best thing for Racing at this stage would be a total collapse of the sport.
The base of horse racing is not a stable structure and all everyone is doing is trying to fix and correct an unstable foundation which is just going to add confusion and more problems.
Listen, Racing could be put off for 1 whole year easily with everyone in the industry working together on a level platform because this current affair is going to go on for years and years.
Just shut the hole opperation down, from race courses to breeding operations.
Then we’ll see whos talking the hardest.
- Total Posts 17716
Talking of revolutionary measures the best would be:
a) make all types of betting tote
b) in high street shops use plastic card with your name
c) prohibit betting by professionals and horse owners(c) applies in football. There are ways of dodging but to a certain extent it works.
Tote Monopoly is ideal for Horse Racing. Works in France in Hong Kong. It just works.
It cant be implemented in these isles though.
- Total Posts 17716
Tote Monopoly is ideal for Horse Racing. Works in France in Hong Kong. It just works.
It cant be implemented in these isles though.
I did not say monopoly.
The French are nationalistic. PMU are playing the nationalistic angle. Some Frenchies don’t understand they say "goody, vive la France" but the PMU are Arsen Loupens.3 Mile Hunter Chase @ Newbury
1st £988.95 2nd £304.20 3rd £152.10
That is just pathetic….988 pound
I rather a Tote Monopoly personally
Sorry for inferring my preferred choice
Kempton seem to be taking an interesting line from April 1st at their evening meetings. The prize money on offer matches the tariff, not a penny less, not a penny more. So you have races offering £2562 total prize fund, others on £3543, instead of the more usual round numbers.
I’m not sure whether you’d count that as a victory for the Horsemens Group, but for me it highlights the problem with setting a minimum prize level, whether it’s done by them or by the BHA. It’s all too easy for the track to offer the minimum, knowing that if other tracks follow their example, there’s no competition for runners. And so the absolute minimum becomes accepted as standard, until the next fall in income.
Which is what has happened over the last six years as the BHA minimum level for a 0-85 handicap has dropped from £11,000, to £10,500, to £8,500, to £8,000, then £7,300 and last year £6,500.
Now the BHA no longer dictates a minimum, other than that no flat race can fall below £2250, so some tracks are offering just £5,000 for a 0-85.
AP
Surely £3543 & £2562 is preferable to £3000 & £2250. You have said yourself what happens with no minimum with your 0-85 example.
Nothing to stop any track offering more but with no minimum there’s nothing to stop them offering less as Kempton previously did and no doubt would have continued to do so without these new tariffs.I recall a post by apracing a while back about Newbury not putting all of its race sponsorship income into prizemoney. Is that widespread across the racecourses and do they have a valid reason for doing this?
According to The RP as things stand, Godolphin wont have runners in The Ascot Gold Cup, St Jame’s Palace or the Queen Anne.
I think the RP did something on this a couple of months back Cav – along the lines of how much of the total prize pool for each was put in by the levy board and how much was put in by the courses, remember the courses get paid for each race they stage.
I think the worst example was Southwell who staged around £1.5m worth of races in the 2010 calendar year and put the grand total of less than £1,000 into prize money themselves.
I know through work roughly how much it would cost to sponsor a race or a card at a minor course, suffice to say that in my opinion most of the money will exit the prize pool ie. won’t be put into the total prize money and is likely to go on other costs (possibly) or straight into the profits (probably more likely).
- Total Posts 17716
Tote system does n’t have to be monopoly but tote receipts of various operators could be merged to work out a unique price.
I don’t know if that’s good or bad though. Maybe it makes no difference.Today’s Winter Derby prize money has been slashed in half from previous years and is worth less than when it was a Listed race and even as a Class B when it first started.
It is 33 grand under the tariff.The comparison with football is inaccurate.
For me, I’ve come back to my wide angle viewpoint. Let’s use post racing concerts as an example: it’s a success, it works & it’s put hundreds of thousands of pounds into racecourses. That is a fact, like it or not. But no-one knows where that money is going & I think we all suspect it’s going directly into certain pockets.
As far as football is concerned, most of the money they’re making isn’t coming from attendances, even taking into account the hideous inflated ticket prices at the top level.
I think the comparison works if you replace the word ‘levy’ with the expression ‘tv rights’ although of course that Sky/ESPN money is far greater than racing could ever dream of.
Of course, I’m saying football ‘makes money’ from this that & the other but that isn’t really true. All of the top teams (not just in the UK, but worldwide, Spain in particular) are swimming in debt, the teams lower down are losing money hand over fist & in the case of particular clubs, it only takes one wealthy Arab or Russian to get bored or a bank to get sick of waiting for their money back & the whole house of cards could come crashing down.
I’d take the financial situation of racing over that of football any day.
- Total Posts 17716
The comparison with football is inaccurate.
For me, I’ve come back to my wide angle viewpoint. Let’s use post racing concerts as an example: it’s a success, it works & it’s put hundreds of thousands of pounds into racecourses. That is a fact, like it or not. But no-one knows where that money is going & I think we all suspect it’s going directly into certain pockets.
As far as football is concerned, most of the money they’re making isn’t coming from attendances, even taking into account the hideous inflated ticket prices at the top level.
I think the comparison works if you replace the word ‘levy’ with the expression ‘tv rights’ although of course that Sky/ESPN money is far greater than racing could ever dream of.
Of course, I’m saying football ‘makes money’ from this that & the other but that isn’t really true. All of the top teams (not just in the UK, but worldwide, Spain in particular) are swimming in debt, the teams lower down are losing money hand over fist & in the case of particular clubs, it only takes one wealthy Arab or Russian to get bored or a bank to get sick of waiting for their money back & the whole house of cards could come crashing down.
I’d take the financial situation of racing over that of football any day.
Football imho suffers from over inflated transfer fees and the Bossman decision.
There used to be some totalitarians around who forbade any move or transfer, some 40-50 yearas ago.
That too was excessive, but instead of a fair midway solution we opted for the present state of affairs.
It favoured the big clubs. Juventus – Inter and others similar had the money and they thought they could intimidate the rest, but it does n’t work now.
Further it kills competition. When we know it’s always going to be the same gang fighting for the top trophies, we get bored.
But big clubs like M.U. did win European titles by playing good football, like in 1968, without Bossman decision.Racing has no supporters as such.
It is not an Olympic sport either, to go and cheer our for countries.
Racing is founded on betting.
What I say to my local authorities is this:"you never saw a penny from the likes of Kolynos superwhite or Colgate ever in your lives – it all comes from what we wager here".
http://www.racehorseowners.net/en/news/ … ff-changes
No real shock. The attempt of imposing what they seem to think are mandatory tariffs on Group/Listed races on the flat could only lead to prize money cuts/savings – whatever word you think is more appropriate.
For example, at Royal Ascot, Ascot could have ‘cut’ £400k from the overall prize money and still met the tariff for each individual race.
I think we can now expect Godolphin to enter horses in the St James’ Palace Stakes, Gold Cup and Queen Anne for the derisory amount of at least £120k to the winner.
This move also leaves them free to go after real increases in prize money and continue the attack on certain racecourses and racecourse groups (think Arena Leisure).
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