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Grade 3 novice chase on Sunday in naas. 10 horses entered. 9 are gigginstoen and one is McManus. Will we eventually see a race with only gigginstown horses
Just shows what a sad state of affairs racing in Ireland is in and why half the time half the horses aren’t trying.
4 runners, all owned by Gigginstown. Prince of scars for me but looks like it could go any way
Surely 67% of the runners owned by Gigginstown in The Clonmel Oils Chase cannot be good for racing.
If this was commercial surely it would be referred to the Competions Regulations before being allowed in the public interest. Why is racing different?
Having said that it is Irish Racing which IMO is not policied the best anyway.To be honest droffats, this is one of those things where there is no wrong or right answer. All the Gigginstown horses are in there on merit, and you could have made a case for any of them winning. If Gigginstown have the horses why shouldn’t they be allowed run them? Should they be punished for their success, or should it be up to other organisations to get on their level? It’s a similar question to that of Ballydoyle on the flat, we all agree that a lack of competition is very damaging to any sport, but is putting a cap on success really the solution? Not in my opinion anyway.
It’s not Irish racing’s fault that the two biggest owners in the game are based primarily in Ireland, possibly the third biggest as well if you count Ricci, but at least in the case of Gigginstown and McManus, their horses are spread out over many different trainers of varying sizes and successes. Without these big owners driving the game forward, I don’t think Irish and British racing would be any better off.
more annoyed that Alpha D O has won. I have followed that horse off a cliff for well over a year now and decided today was the day I drew a line under it and moved on.
not sure if i back or not NTO now.
Normally my attitude is survival of the fittest but I can’t help but feel over that last year or so and particularly the last month that the sheer number of horses owned by gigginstown and sweeping up prize money all over Ireland is ruining Irish jump racing as a spectacle. The most frustrating thing is that they have only the 4 trainers and therefore the same few winning everything. At least McManus supports the small stables and spreads his horses out amongst trainers in Ireland England Scotland and wales of all shapes and sizes.
Of course it’s profoundly boring… you have a similar situation on the flat with Aiden O’Brien
the problem is if these guys like Coolmore and Gigginstown withdrew then the game would go under completely probably… or we’d be watching much worse quality fare than it already is, even if more competitive fare
The flip side is that other trainers and owners should grow some cojones and take them on.
There was the case last season where a trainer wanted to run a horse in a £3k class 5 but the meeting was abandoned so the owners persuaded him to run it in a £9k conditions race…and it won. Loads of horses are protected by cautious trainers wanting the perfect handicap mark for that one day when things are in their favour
There’s a middle ground here and although Gigginstown bore me senseless when they enter so many for the same race, I think others should step up and challenge them more often
To be fair to Gigginstown, they do usually run their horses on their merits.
I think it says something about the commenters if they don’t see Ball D’Arc, Road To Riches, Sub Lieutenant etc but look at a racecard and see Generic Gigginstown Horse A, Generic Gigginstown Horse B, Generic Gigginstown Horse C. They run in the same ownership but they are all unique horses with their own levels of ability, ground preferences, backgrounds and so on.
LS3 makes a good point, it seems Team O’Leary rarely has a prefered outcome. I wouldn’t have a problem backing a third or fourth string of theirs. Where as I sometimes do with other owners. Seeing each horse seperately helps instead of generic Gigginstown.
I can see such a dominence can put off new owners coming in to the sport, if they don’t think there’s much chance of big race success. At least Mullins doesn’t win everything, but when so many of the good horses are controlled by so few. Mullins, Elliott, Gigginstown, McManus and Ricci… it’s not as interesting for the general public. That said, without people like O’Leary the best Irish horses would end up in training in England.
Value Is EverythingThe fact that Gigginstown have their horses spread out created a situation where the two non-Gigginstown horses were trained by trainers who also had Gigginstown horses in the race. Theoretically, this gave Gigginstown a 100% monopoly on inside information in a Graded race. Even if we accept that Michael O’Leary is completely above board and perfectly ethical in all of his dealings, you’d have a hard time convincing a newcomer and potential future supporter of the game that yesterday’s Clonmel feature is worth betting on.
At least with the Coolmore, Darley, Shadwell, Juddemonte operations on the flat, the bulk of the top horses tend to be homebred. Gigginstown just buy basically every top p2p prospect then flog the ones who aren’t top class after a couple of seasons. The absence of Gigginstown would not deprive fans of top class racing as it existed perfectly fine prior to his emergence. We just had different owners buying the class horses. Up until a few seasons ago, a racing enthusiast could look at a photo of two or three top horses jumping the last in a feature race and identify each horse in running. An exercise rendered impossible now that jumps racing has evolved into one man’s private play set.
If this isn’t bad for the sport then I’d hate to know what is.
The only problem I see with it is that they all wear the same coloured silks (apart from cap). Can definitely be off putting and detrimental to the enjoyment of a race like the Irish National seeing 7 or 8 going round in Gigginstown colours and another 7 or 8 in JP’s colours.
Doubt there would be any complaints at all if they all had to wear different coloured silks.I don’t have any gripe with Gigginstown in particular, but do feel that Irish racing is reaping what it has sown, and while that may be fine for now, I don’t see where the next generation are going to come from. Point to pointing has largely been the nursery of talent and interest (along with pony racing), but the small person has been consistently squeezed out over the last 15 years or so; even the one horse owner/handler now has to pay for a licence, have an HRI account, and public liability and employer’s liability insurance. The race opportunities are skewed in favour of the 4yo commercial market, and a number of senior figures signed a letter to the Irish Field several years ago, about the danger of pursuing this path. Handlers have reduced by half over the last few years (just three years I think, but am open to correction), and the authorities are blaming everyone but themselves. Horse racing needs to sustain the level of funding it gets from the govt, not least to keep certain fat cats, well… fat, so they LOVE the big Cheltenham winners, the massive prices at the sales (which, ahem, may or may not be real), and so on. The fact that Irish NH racing is shriveling away at its roots has been ignored. I hope it stays fine for them, and Mullins and Elliott manage to keep the interest of wealthy owners alive. History suggests the odds are against them.
It appears as though Mouse Morris has lost his gigginstown horses, with Irish grand national winners Rogue Angel and Thunder and Roses entered to run under Gordon Elliot’s name tomorrow
So the man who won O’Leary his first Gold Cup and just 2 years ago his first Grand National and the Irish National now has no Gigginstown horses. Very loyal. Or has Mouse put his training fees up a fiver
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