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There are going to be a lot of duplications in the breeding to the vast number of mares around at the moment, given that most have at least one & most likely two crosses of Northern Dancer. If only he had come from a different bloodline all together, though maybe had he, he would end up siring jumpers.
It is an odd sort of pedigree really with some strong lines of stamina, but a lot of milers. The tail female line is that of Zabara who didn’t stay much beyond a mile; strange to see Roan Rocket in a top class pedigree these days.
I haven’t seen a conformation shot of this horse, what is wrong with him physically?There’s nothing as such wrong with Frankel in terms of temperament or his conformation though he isn’t what you would called an especially good looking horse visually.
His pedigree while having some speed in it has plenty of stamina so on paper it makes him look not overly likely to sire sprinters but then again he is a very fast horse. There isn’t that much duplication in his pedigree so breeders don’t have to worry too much about that other than mares sired by Sadlers Wells if he’s into older women and of course Galileo.
Very, very true Venusian. Look at Secretariat. Sired Lady’s Secret, champion filly, but overall a bit of a disappointment as a sire. Affirmed, one of the greatest horses I ever saw. His toughness I thought was a no brainer to pass on to his progeny but in a way disappointed as a sire. Alydar, his nemesis throughout his career turned out to be a freak. No rhyme or reason really. I remember Seth Hancock from Claiborne Farm was once asked what is your recipe for success. He replied: ”You breed the best to the best and hope for the best.” Look at Sea Bird, his best was Allez France (champion), Sea Pigeon, Gyr and Arctic Tern. Not a great strike rate really.
Very, very true Venusian. Look at Secretariat. Sired Lady’s Secret, champion filly, but overall a bit of a disappointment as a sire. Affirmed, one of the greatest horses I ever saw. His toughness I thought was a no brainer to pass on to his progeny but in a way disappointed as a sire.
Affirmed’s problem was that his best offspring were turf horses. Were he at stud in Europe he’d be hailed as an enormous success.
I dont understand why he needs to be retired. The prince dosnt need the money and could easily wait another year. Frankel is the best horse he will ever have and can only get better next season. Why not just keep him in training for another year and his stud fee could go even higher. I dont see what he has to loose to be honest.
agree freddy i would love to see him race next year. if he was starting to look to be in decline this year you could understand them keen on retirement but imo he has looked better with each race and would probably be just as good if not better next year i understand its all to do with breeding and money but i think frankel is a horse in a lifetime and the prince doesnt need the money
I totally agree wit the racing onwards case
Frankly… (sorry) this is an opportunity to realy give flat racing a massive public shot in the arm. It takes time for a horse to seep into the public cosnciusness and draw people to the game and all too often (a/la STS) they are gone and away
Flat racing needs it.
Abdullah is a fine owner but he doesnt need one penny of the stud fees. Hes note exactly sweating over his council tax bill is he?
it would be almost a philanthopic act and one that any billionaire should be proud of
A 12f race should have been tried and it is a little frustrating that this will seemingly not happen. Doesnt even have to be the arc. Go half a season and the KGV perhaps.
and anyway, how long do they stand at stud? its not as if its a short window before he cant get it up anymore is it?
why the haste?
I don’t know why connections seem so scared/worried (whatever the word is) to truly test this horse, especially on an international stage, which they need to do IMHO if they want him to stand proudly in the pantheon of greats.
I understand the stud aspect, but what harm is there in racing him next year, he’s only had 14 races in his life after tomorrow, and surely if he could prove himself across on foreign soil and at a mile and a half, that would demonstrate his versatility and ability to travel and compete on different surfaces (Breeders Cup Classic/Dubai World Cup)?
Zip
I agree with a few other posters, and until the boss says differently, I’ll retain the romantic notion that KA might announce that if Sir Henry carries on next year then F will stay in training.
I’ve had a small bet at 16s!
Joe
Aji i read your first post and thought to myself what a boring way to end up as a sire; for such a racing machine.I remember so many brilliant horses here in the US eg John Henry,Cigar and many others who raced and won for many years.If they failed as sires at least their racing career was something for the record books.
Aji i read your first post and thought to myself what a boring way to end up as a sire; for such a racing machine.I remember so many brilliant horses here in the US eg John Henry,Cigar and many others who raced and won for many years.If they failed as sires at least their racing career was something for the record books.
Cigar is an interesting case: After they realized he was sterile and he was sent to live at the Kentucky Horse Park, they’d still test him every spring to see if somehow he had started producing viable sperm. His worth when he was retired was well over $100 million, so it’s no wonder the Paulsons kept trying. They finally gave up a couple years ago.
Would Frankel’s full brother be as likely as Frankel, to get racing stock equal to those of Frankel?
Good to see the positive wishes here. On another forum, to a person, it was virtually "he should be retired". Real hairshirt stuff "we dont deserve him. hes done enough"
what bollocks and what a strange bunch some flat racing followers are
Ever since the first Arab horses came to this country it’s all been about breeding the perfect racehorse. We, as followers of the sport, should be grateful to those who have the money and the expertise to do so. Having created ‘the perfect racehorse’ it’s only natural that Prince Khallid should want to see what effect Frankel will have on the gene pool. This isn’t about money. He’ll have to wait a few years to see if Frankel will pass on those genes; it’s understandable that he doesn’t want to wait yet another year. We’re lucky that he gave us [and Sir Henry] Frankel as a four year old. As for publicity; I don’t think Frankel has captured the attention of the general public outside of racing. Anyway; at least the news is that he’s racing today and lets hope he wins and comes home safe. I still have to admit to disappointment that he never ran in America, though [which is probably very two faced of me to say the least, so apologies in advance!].
I wonder about that "gene pool" stuff.Surely Frankel’s full brother is exactly the same "gene pool".Better retire him and race Frankel and see the result of using that gene pool to generate further racing stock.
I wonder about that "gene pool" stuff.Surely Frankel’s full brother is exactly the same "gene pool".Better retire him and race Frankel and see the result of using that gene pool to generate further racing stock.
Frankels full brother can be totally different to Frankel as he will inherit 50% of his genetic material from each parent (note: not strictly true as the X and Y chromosomes are different sizes) and hence the amount of genetic material they share can vary dramatically.
If we assume that the ‘speed’ gene theory is correct, Galileo is almost certainly TT whereas I suspect Frankel is CT (Kind is probably also CT). Hence is a speed line mare is more likely to be CC resulting in either CC (sprinter) or CT (miler). While I don’t believe that a single gene defines the distance that a racehorse will be best at, it gives a starting point in predicting what is the outcome of possible matings.
Ever since the first Arab horses came to this country it’s all been about breeding the perfect racehorse. We, as followers of the sport, should be grateful to those who have the money and the expertise to do so. Having created ‘the perfect racehorse’ it’s only natural that Prince Khallid should want to see what effect Frankel will have on the gene pool. This isn’t about money. He’ll have to wait a few years to see if Frankel will pass on those genes; it’s understandable that he doesn’t want to wait yet another year. We’re lucky that he gave us [and Sir Henry] Frankel as a four year old. As for publicity; I don’t think Frankel has captured the attention of the general public outside of racing. Anyway; at least the news is that he’s racing today and lets hope he wins and comes home safe. I still have to admit to disappointment that he never ran in America, though [which is probably very two faced of me to say the least, so apologies in advance!].
Galileo and Kind created Frankel and the fact his full brother is in comparison very average shows that breeders don’t really determine the qualities of a racehorse, it is mostly luck. While he is a truly outstanding racehorse to say he is the perfect racehorse is an exaggerated claim, physically he isn’t and it is impossible to compare him to all the thoroughbred racehorses which have been around for hundreds of years to say he is.
His reported stud fee of £100k suggests quite clearly that money is a considerable factor with regard to his stud career and how well he does in it remains to be seen.
Actually I think he has captured the imagination of a lot of the public outside racing as for instance there was a piece on the ITV News At Ten last night and that is good to see and can only be good for racing.
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