- This topic has 753 replies, 126 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Sea the Stars was so good over 10f a lot of people thought he wouldn’t get the Arc trip and he ended up doing better over the trip than he did 10f
How do you work that one out? He ran below form in the Arc and his class got him through.
- Total Posts 17716
Perhaps the greatest pleasure of the British Pattern is the speculation as to how these brilliant 2yos might develop as 3yos.
The vision of Frankel, Saamidd plus anything Coolmore can throw into the mix, all locking horns as they charge towards the dip in next year’s Guineas, is already much more engaging to me than the prospective sight of a dozen or more second-rate stayers grinding round Longchamp to slug out the Arc.
A personal opinion of course: but I’m not alone. That’s what these
end-of-season-championship-stick-it-all-on-one-Saturday
wallahs simply do not understand about flat racing fans. Fools that they are and blind.
Jesus Christ Euro, how did YOU come to that conclusion?! He brushed the opposition aside with the same zest as he did all season. His turn of foot to take him to the front was breathtaking
La Boum was less than 5 lengths behind Sea The Stars in the Arc and Tangaspeed was less than 7 lengths behind.
Whatever you make of the manner in which Sea The Stars won the Arc, if you rate his bare form there superior to his form in the Eclipse and the Irish Champion you get silly figures on those two horses (and highly questionable ones on everything else in the first dozen bar Fame And Glory).
If somethign had been able to push Sea The Stars further though Prufrock he would more than likely have pulled out plenty more. Juddmonte International, beats Mastercraftsman by one length. Irish Champion Stakes, beats Mastercraftsman by five lengths because Fame And Glory made him pull out more. He only ever did enough to beat what was put infront of him.
Just because Zarkave only beat It’s Gino by 2 1/1 lengths in her Arc doesn’t mean she ren below form. It’s inevitable that something will punch above its weight.
RPR of 122 given for his Royal Lodge performance. I’d say it’s a shade of odds-on that he doesn’t train on. Dubawi, New Approach and Celtic Swing all did, but looking through the others – Xaar, Mujahid, Tobougg, Alhaarth and St Nicholas Abbey too arguably.
Visually very impressive. However, the quality of that field was very questionable. Treasure Beach couldn’t win a nursery at Listowel last week – hardly the route Ballydoyle would be going if they felt he was anyway decent.
If Frankel was to be a classic contender, he was entitled to beat them as he liked. St Nicholas Abbey, for me, was equally as impressive as a 2yo last year but it never happened for him at 3. Hopefully he will be a superstar and he carries all before him next summer. There’s every possibility that he won’t though. 5/2 for the Guineas? Understandable price but there’ll be hundreds of better 5/2 shots running between now and next May.
If somethign had been able to push Sea The Stars further though Prufrock he would more than likely have pulled out plenty more. Juddmonte International, beats Mastercraftsman by one length. Irish Champion Stakes, beats Mastercraftsman by five lengths because Fame And Glory made him pull out more. He only ever did enough to beat what was put infront of him.
Just because Zarkave only beat It’s Gino by 2 1/1 lengths in her Arc doesn’t mean she ren below form. It’s inevitable that something will punch above its weight.
That may be so. But the fact remains that Sea The Stars did not run to his best form – arguably did not run ANYWHERE NEAR his best form – in winning the Arc.
To say he did "better at 12f than at 10f", in terms of form, is unsustainable. That seemed to be what the earlier poster was pointing out.
True to say that a couple of the horses in behind may not have been up to much but to say he was better at 10f is pure speculation. Two runs at 12f, two consummately easy victories.
Fist said "he ended up doing better over the trip [12f] than he did 10f"
If we are talking about form, that is unsustainable.
No-one actually said
the horse
was better at 10f than 12f.
Apoligies Pru, think we’ve got our wires crossed!
Euro said that "class got him through" in the Arc. This is what I struggle to comprehend!
Perhaps Fist could explain what he meant by "doing better" at 12f than 10f, because he has got me beat as things stand.
- Total Posts 17716
Just watched it again and looks better each time.
So many good 2 year olds this year its brilliant.
Next years 2000 guineas at present looks at being the best I have ever seen, just fingers crossed they all winter well and make it.
I just wonder will some of these meet in the Dewhurst and give us a pre taster for next year?
Visually very impressive. However, the quality of that field was very questionable. Treasure Beach couldn’t win a nursery at Listowel last week – hardly the route Ballydoyle would be going if they felt he was anyway decent.
I totally agree visually stunning, however I think your being slightly disingenuous as to the level of opposition after all he can only thrash what’s before him.
Compare with main market rivals in Guineas, Saamiid beat Approve 2 1/2 lenghts, a colt already beaten twice as far by Libranno. Pathfork beat Casamento a head, the same Casamento that had beaten Cannon Hill 2 1/2 lenghts, that is the same Cannon Hill that was beaten 1/2 length by Treasure Beach, and we all know what Frankel did to Treasure Beach.- Total Posts 17716
Visually very impressive. However, the quality of that field was very questionable. Treasure Beach couldn’t win a nursery at Listowel last week – hardly the route Ballydoyle would be going if they felt he was anyway decent.
If Frankel was to be a classic contender, he was entitled to beat them as he liked. St Nicholas Abbey, for me, was equally as impressive as a 2yo last year but it never happened for him at 3. Hopefully he will be a superstar and he carries all before him next summer. There’s every possibility that he won’t though. 5/2 for the Guineas? Understandable price but there’ll be hundreds of better 5/2 shots running between now and next May.
Id agree with you that the field wasnt up to much but remember Joshua Tree who won last years Royal Lodge had finished 2nd in a Listowel nursery prior to that….
Here’s a challenge for you, name me the best horse Workfarce has actually beaten.
Fame an Glory
and
Youmzain
!! 2 proper Group 1 horses!
- Total Posts 17716
Where Frankles form is so so so visually impressive Pathforks paper form now looks faultless given that he beat the winner,2nd and 3rd in the Beresford there…
Rock solid Pathfork
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.