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Because listening to trainer quotes gets you everywhere in horse racing coggy…
Some trainers say things to please their owners, to make themselves look good in the media, to mask a horse’s true ability for handicap reasons, to have a dig at another trainer, etc. Some are very careful but speak only what they know to be true. Some trainers have had over forty years of watching 50 to 100 two-year-olds every year develop from yearling to mature horse. You cannot lump trainers together and say either: “Don’t believe a word they say” or “Trust them implicitly”. You have to be selective about which ones you trust and which ones you don’t.
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I’d rather go with believing some of them, some of the time, and listen most closely when they say things that aren’t at all self-serving. Simon Crisford’s recent praise of Frankel being one example, Dettori’s selection of Twice Over as his Morning Line charity bet (even though he rode the fancied Poet’s Voice) another.
Many sugggest we shouldn’t listen at all, but I find plenty of genuine nuggets amongst the dross, and it’s probably a poor punter who can’t learn anything from anyone.- Total Posts 17716
Interesting to see how his close relation goes in the first at Yarmouth today – Arizona Jewel.
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She’s a real one paced plodding type that one. The winner looks nothing special and the rest looked a lot worse than that.
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Dangerous to write off Arizona Jewel just yet: Cecil thinks a lot of her, as he does of our Elite filly Sinnfonia who was also entered in this race.
Sinnfonia has been reserved for an alternative at Doncaster later this week, as he didn’t want to race them against one another. Both, I would guess, will make good 3yo’s who won’t be trained too hard until next Spring.
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I’m happy with what I saw. She’s nothing special for mine. Big filly, big action no real acceleration. We’ll see what she can do on a sounder surface but given her size and action I wont be holding my breath.
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I’ve just seen the race, and would have to say that if I could take home any of that lot, it would be Arizona Jewel (and that not just for her extraordinary breeding.)
Big, clumsy juvenile goose who could easily turn into a swan over the winter – a better debut than Sinnfonia (Elite Racing’s close relative to Kalanisi) last week, who looked not only clumsy but also horribly green, though in what was perhaps a better race.
Mind you, Arizona Jewel doesn’t look as if she’ll be rivalling her nephew Frankel for miling honours!!
To respond to TAPK, you previously pontificated earlier that he also wouldnt win win the Dewhurst either mate.
I think that your only hope is that he doesn’t train on , or something comes out of left field at Coolmore.
You seem to have changed your views from him being an over rated 2yo to him being just a very good 2yo.
You should just admit your misjudgement this year and move on.
As I have previously stated, with all due respect, Mr Cecil has forgotten far more than I (and I presume you) will ever know about racing, and therefore I would rather go with his judgements than ours
Whether he stays middle distances or not, does not necessarily prevent him becoming a superstarWell Coggy I am now approaching 70 at a rate of knots so have a long long memory having been following the sport since the age of 8 ! I was impressed by Frankel,s last 2 wins but it’s way too early to call him a Classic winner in waiting.Far too many reputations have been smashed after their 3 year old reappearances ever since a horse called Pinturischio was a Winter Derby favourite decades ago.Almost every year we get a 2year old ‘talking horse’ and disappointment is almost inevitable. Being a cynic I have long suspected that the bookies are perfectly happy to offer decent odds for these 2 year olds ante-post during the winter before the Classics. Frankel looks the part but will he grow into a 3 year old of the same standard ? Where are the late developers and the unraced colts from Ballydoyle or Godolphin. I have always said that ante-post is a dodgy game so my advice would be to keep your powder dry !
PS I forget to mention that Pinturischio was like Crowned Prince and never raced as a 3 year old.- Total Posts 17716
Far too many reputations have been smashed after their 3 year old reappearances ever since a horse called Pinturischio was a Winter Derby favourite decades ago. …[snip]… PS I forget to mention that Pinturischio was like Crowned Prince and never raced as a 3 year old.
That story is one of the murkiest scandals in post-war racing. Here’s part of an "Independent" article:
More recently, Pinturischio, the ante-post favourite for the 1961 Derby, was got at twice in the run-up to Epsom. Noel Murless, his trainer, reckoned the colt to be the finest to have passed through even his famous hands, but the dopers did their work so thoroughly that Pinturischio could barely stand up afterwards, far less run in the Classic.
In other words, it wasn’t that the superhorse did not train on: he was got at, and ruined. We will never know what he might have been: and in all honesty he wouldn’t have had to be much to have won Psidium’s Derby, and the Murless-trained Aurelius, who won the Leger, was reckoned to be a stone inferior to Pinturischio.
The second horse to finish behind Frankel has had another run, (other than those who ran in his maiden win). After Rainbow Springs, beaten 13 lengths by Frankel, finished third in the Group 1 Marcel Boussac, now Klammer, beaten 10 lengths by Frankel has gone on to win the Group 3 Horris Hill at Newbury. It seems like the people who thought the Royal Lodge was top form have a bit more evidence to support their case.
Queen Gertrude gives a very ironic answer to her son’s question when she says: “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” She is impugning the credibility of a queen in a stage play who declares her constantcy for her king. Hamlet asked the question of his mother because he is questioning his mother’s strength of attachment to his own late father.
Ironically, the BHA today raised Frankel’s official rating by three pounds, without him having to stretch a leg, on the basis of Klammer’s performance last weekend. He’s getting better every week. By the end of the year he may be a true champion.
Mind you, how much credence should we allow the BHA hadicappers. Originally, Frankel’s ten length beating of a horse who had just won a £50,000 Listed race in France was rated five pounds inferior to Dream Ahead’s ten-and-a-half length beating of a horse who had just been beaten nearly nine lengths in a Chester nursery.
Credibility is what other people think, constancy is what one possesses within oneself. Clever bloke, that Shakespeare. He could tell the true attributes of a queen, whether she was a real queen or a stage queen, but I wonder if he could tell a champion horse from a pretender.
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Clever bloke, that Shakespeare. He could tell the true attributes of a queen, whether she was a real queen or a stage queen, but I wonder if he could tell a champion horse from a pretender.
I suspect Shakespeare preferred the dogs: remember the great peroration at the end of Henry V’s
"Once more unto the breach…"
at Harfleur?:
"I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!"Antony and Cleopatra
is full of horsey references (
"Oh happy horse to bear the weight of Antony!"
) but there is only one reference I think to horse racing: the victorious general Ventidius wins a battle against the Parthians:
"The ne’er-yet-beaten horse of Parthia
We have jaded out o’ the field."I doubt he was presciently thinking of the 1958 Derby winner, but Shakespeare was at least wise enough to know that unbeaten champions could be thrashed out of sight if conditions were right. Frankel fans, think on….
I doubt he was presciently thinking of the 1958 Derby winner,
…or even the 1959 Derby winner !
Maybe Paris Hilton has much more in common with the 1958 winner ? 
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
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…or even the 1959 Derby winner !
Maybe Paris Hilton has much more in common with the 1958 winner ? Ouch, 1959 it is!
Come to think of it [and Paris Hilton aside],
Cleopatra
may have been thinking of the
1958
winner when she came out with that stuff about the "happy horse" "bearing the weight" of her lover!
Maybe Paris Hilton has much more in common with the 1958 winner ? 
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