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<br>Mike,
I think you’ll find that he was first contacted by Betfair who asked him for permission to give his details to the police. The police are interviewing a very small sample of punters to provide a representative sample of ‘victims’ of the alleged fraud.
Presumably the prosecution felt that their case wouldn’t stand up unless the jury could be convinced that such victims exist. Hence the reason for interviewing a punter who’d lost money on a horse they allege was pulled by Fallon.
I entirely agree with your view on the resources wasted on this piddling little case, but I suppose if the job is to be done at all, it might as well be done properly and I guess a fraud case needs a victim just as much as a murder case needs a body.
AP
"" do not think Fallon or any racing corruption warrants this level of police resources when people are getting away with the most vicious crimes and they do nothing. They don’t even respond to many calls these days. ""
Ah but nothing new here Green Desert. Its a well know fact that celeb or high profile cases get unbelieveable attension from the prosecution. You only have to look at the case of Michael Jackson where the state nearly bankrupted itself. They even had something like 27 handwriting experts employed.
SHL
So if Fallon wasnt being charged, this case would not be proceeding then?
Dont think so…..
<br>EC. Do you really think that if knew he was "guilty" he would simply stop there and then? Come off it… Even given what little we know about him as a personality, i find that very hard to envisage…
Look at the money wasted investigating Kate Moss.
Amazing they are interviewing losing punters on Levitator. Nothing suspect in that race, horse was not slow away and was given every chance to beat the 11/10 fav, in the end beaten 7l and beat the second fav. It was an improvement on his earlier runs.<br>Just because the boys laid it does not mean the race was bent
I think that the slightly chippy paranoic view that this is just some sort of case to bring a "celebrity" (which, beyond racing circles, he isnt really…) back down to earth is ridiculous
I’ve spoken to my friend today – here’s the full chain of events.
Betfair contacted him a couple of weeks ago to ask him for their permission to forward his details to the City of London police (not the Met, as I erroneously stated previously). They stressed that his name had been taken purely at random along with many others who had backed or layed various horses (to wildly differing amounts) and that they were not implicating any punters or jockeys in any wrongdoing.
He agreed to this. I must emphasise that all this was done with his express permission.
As I stated, last Friday an officer then visited my friend at home and talked to him speifically about Levitator and Ballinger Ridge. He had backed both horses to small amounts on Betfair. Presumably this is why he was one of the punters selected.
The officer clearly stated to him that they were concerned with a group of criminals supposedly laundering money via Betfair. This may have also involved the procurement of some information from connections close to various runners to make that laundering more effective. The officer asked him if he was satisfied with the running of both horses which he said he was (the cock-up on BR notwithstanding).
He was subsequently asked whether he would have backed those horses if he had known that other punters with supposed ‘inside’ information were prepared to lay them. My friend said ‘no’. By implication, therefore, it would seem that both races are under investigation to some degree.
My fiend then made a verbal statement to that effect. This was then typed up and the officer returned this week to get a signature.
I hope this clears things up.
We should have no opinion on Fallon’s involvement or otherwise as none of us is in full possession of the facts. However, I am mighty suspicious that if you trail around the country collecting statements from losing punters you are inevitably going to portray a negative picture of the man.
How is this court evidence?
Mike<br>
Quote: from clivex on 12:55 pm on Sep. 15, 2006[br]I think that the slightly chippy paranoic view that this is just some sort of case to bring a "celebrity" (which, beyond racing circles, he isnt really…) back down to earth is ridiculous
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I certainly didnt say that Clivex. I just said that more money and time will be spent on this then on comparable cases because the prosecution and police attorities are in the media spotlight. Thats a fact.
SHL
Clive why will it not be evidence?
(Edited by bluechariot at 7:46 am on Sep. 16, 2006)
Clivex.<br>If the elite of counter terrorism Police , trusted with surveilance of a suspect for weeks, then get him mixed up with a Brazillian…who look nothing like Asians…can get away with killing the poor boy , who was innocent, what trust can you put in the Police’s interpretation of any wrongdoing in the Fallon case?
The police are poorly trained in these matters. The case will fall apart, as they have before. Alternatively they will stitch Fallon up.
It is not important.
The key phrase in this is what Betlarge has said.
"group of criminals laundering money via Betfair"
That is the issues that will emerge from all this…and the Government will use it as an excuse to bring in the legislation they want to build a database of all financial transactions. They have no checks on betting until now.
They are not bothered about crime. They are bothered about tax. They will be able to see if anyone is regularly betting larger amounts than they earn. If you can’t prove where you got the money they have got you.
They are preparing the same kind of thing with ebay transactions….they will use the excuse of fraud and money laundering. Yet they regularly catch these criminals and yet take no action. The real reason is they want to find out how much non declared income is being earned.
My view for what it is worth is Fallon is innocent. We all know he is innocent on the one race that non horse people think he is guilty of. <br>There are incidents that clearly jockeys do not ride horses out. Often that is because the horse is having problems and not because it has been backed to lose.
They will have to look at every case that horses were backed to lose and instead won or went close to see that there is not much correlation between success and failure. Them they would have to see what other factors could have caused the defeat/victory  in those cases (for example; I do not uses Betfair but if I did I would back any Green Desert to lose on too soft ground…and I wouldn’t be the only one …doesn’t make a conspiracy to defraud if the jockey doesn’t knock it about, or if he even tells someone that he thinks the horse won’t act on the ground. They used to say it on TV all the time!) ÂÂÂ
The Police haven’t got the resources to check on every incident like that….it would take a research team years to conclude anything….and even then they wouldn’t absolutely produce concrete evidence. So any evidence will be based on a false premise.
It isn’t good science. A good solicitor would have it thrown out of court on day one. <br>Of course they may have concrete evidence on these jockeys…but I don’t think they have.
And in any case I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty. That doesn’t seem to matter any more.
Because Miss Scarlett is in the Study with a lead pipe and a body is at her feet, doesn’t mean she killed him.<br>Especially when there are real players in the game of Cluedo who are far more interested in ulterior motives off the game board.
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I have not missed Fallon, Williams or Lynch since they have all been suspended. <br>I have also not missed Graham Bradley since his ban.<br>Fallon is a multi millionaire and his still earning a living and Williams and Lynch are receiving a sum that is equilivant to the riding fees they earned last year (paid in the end by punters)
There is some involvement with a former racehorse owner who met Fallon and was laying his horses to lose thousands. <br>The betting accounts shown in the Racing Post show some owners with basically just one idea in their head and that is to have horses they own or have involvement in ‘not win.'<br>They were not laying these horses to win a hundred pound or so but totals that would buy property or cars.
So if I spend an hour or so studying form and from that study decided to back one of these horses but un beknown to me and others it has been decided that some certain horse will not be winning that is defrauding me and others and thats what this matter is all about.<br>There may be insufficent evidence to proceed to court in the end but the matter is of serious concern to anyone who likes horse racing.<br>
How are we paying for Lynch & Williams? It is the BHB that pay them.My only contribution to racing is to exchanges,bookmakers, racing post and the entrance money about once a month to a meeting.
The owner you refer to lost money laying Fallons mounts. Property and cars must be cheap in Yorkshire!
blue charoit<br>who do you think in the end pays for racing?<br>Thereare no lottery grants or EU funds to keep it alive.<br>BHB get all funds in the end from losing punters.<br>Just the same as Betfair in the end get all the money from losing punters altough no losing bets pay commission they do finance the winning bets that do earn commission.<br>
Quote: from Venusian on 7:54 pm on Sep. 13, 2006[br]If the police are going to focus on the Balinger Ridge race as a key part of their investigations, then Fallon has nothing to worry about. Whatever he may, or may not, have done in other races, that ride was 100% cock-up, not conspiracy
<br>What worries me is that the likely court case is not going to prove anything one way or the other, and will just be a mess. The police seem to be utterly clueless, no wonder the crime clear-up rate in this country is so appalling.<br>
If someone’s going to ride a crooked race are they going to try do it in such a way that it is obvious to any Tom, Dick or Harry it was crooked or will they try to do it skilfully eg hoodwink people into thinking it was all cock up rather than conspiracy?<br>They may well be but how do we know all the police are utterley clueless on the subject?
Seagull,
I am afraid you are quite wrong when ypu suggest that BHB and racing get all their money from losing punters.
Losing punter money ends up in racing through a levy on bookmakers profits paid to the levy Board which then funds verious aspects of racing including prize money. The total for next year is £67.5 million.
The cost of keeping the 20000 racehorses in training is £300million and that is excluding transport to the races ,entrance fees, jockeys fees and Weatherbys levy.
The biggest funders of racing by far are the owners who on average receive back about 21% of their operating costs each year ie net cost of keeping a horse in training is around £12 -14000 each year.
The situation is far worse in UK than in any other mature country because we are the only country with off course bookmakers ( eg Australia is off course tote and only on course bookmakers, USA is all tote etc). Bookmakers gross profits are 9 times their contribution to racing whilst their net profits are some 3 – 4 times.
I know this is primarily a betting forum but please do not suffer from the delusion that punters support racing . They dont and never have done. Betting offices were not legal until the late 50’s early sixties. Racing thrived for some 170 years before that and will continue to do so only provided that there are owners who get pleasure from the sport.
Incidently most owners do not bet – or in any event on any kind of sufficient scale as to recoup their training and horse purchasing committments.
The Police do indeed behave differently when it comes to high profile cases.
The vast resources being spent in the pursuit of KF is proportional to the need for a successful resolution in the case.
Several inherent perceptual biases demonstrated by researchers indicate that success is measured by a conviction, rather than the establishment of the truth or justice.
The successful resolution to the murder of Jill Dando is a case in point – giving a positive impression of Police competence to the media, to Government and the general public.
The fact that they probably have the wrong man is neither here or there. A conviction was achieved.
Galejade…..WELL SAID!!!!!!
That is waht annoys me about the whole thing.
If I own a horse, pay my trainer to train it and a jocley to ride it, surely we three should be able to decide what the horse should be doing?
The fact that punters thing it is all about them is not only a delusion, but also dangerous from an animal welfare and etcical persepctive.
Lets be realistic about this. A horse is not a machine. It has a finite number of races in it, and sometimes it has to be cooched to save it for another day.
<br>I would not want my horse given a hard race just to satisfy the punters when that may not be the target race.<br>As a punter I know that this does and muct happen…or we will have terrible equine casualties. Get over it punters. They CANNOT always be trying for their lives or indeed a great many more will be doing exactly that…losing their lives.
The Jockey Club needs to stop this pretence.
Back to the Falon thing and Betfair and corruption.
Until we can get a horse to speak in the dock then there is no way of proving anything .
What I want to know is why there isn’t the same level of Police investigation on something which is very dodgy. Football. All the footballers admit it. Kicking the ball into touch and stuff because they have bet on the time of the first throw in etc. I wouldn’t mind betting there is as much corruption in the Premiership as in Italian football.
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