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Quote: from Sal on 10:54 am on Mar. 11, 2007[br]This is not just about Coolmore losing this year’s fees for George – it is about messing breeders around and losing a great deal in goodwill. A stallion death just has to be accepted, but breeders would be right to be p**s<br>ed off being sold a brand-new super stallion only to find at the last minute he is a jaffa.
As has been pointed out, George Washington isn’t the first stallion to suffer fertility problems. How much "goodwill" is lost by an unexpected development totally outside Coolmore’s control?
But as they can provide a substitute, I can see why it is more politic for them to do so – even if it means upsetting punters.
Bilko, I wouldn’t mind much, but I know the stud are gong to be on the phone first thing tomorrow morning wanting me to change all their stuff!
I completely agree that so many breeders don’t think it through when sending mares to new stallions – they see a bandwagon and leap on it, trying to be part of the next big thing.  If I ruled the world I would introduce covering limits – 60 mares max for a new Gr.1 winner, 50 for a lesser Group winner, 40 for a non-winner.  I’d let the figures go up once they had their first winning progeny, and again when they had their first black-type winner, and again with their first champion.  It would mean even the likes of Sadler’s Wells would still be restricted to max 120 in a season, and I think that would be a good thing.
Sorry for hijacking the thread for one of my pet rants. ÂÂÂ
If they were stupid enough to send three mares to a first season sire then it serves them right.
What a load of tosh…care to tell me the percentage of first season sires that are infertile or have fertility problems?
How much "goodwill" is lost by an unexpected development totally outside Coolmore’s control?
Quite a bit…and if the breeders do send their horses to Darley etc they might not come back. But for breeders to see Coolmore bend over backwards to accomadate them in this tricky situation is a positive for Coolmore. As ever Sal sums these matters up perfectly.
Sal,  just to chip in briefly I  wanted to say thanks for such an informative post, even if others do not agree with some aspects, I found it interesting and most enlightening. :)
You can tell the flat season is close at hand when Aidan takes a criticism of Coolmore policy as a personal insult.:biggrin:
Quote: from Aidan on 1:43 pm on Mar. 11, 2007[br]
How much "goodwill" is lost by an unexpected development totally outside Coolmore’s control?
Quite a bit…and if the breeders do send their horses to Darley etc they might not come back.
What a load of old tripe.
Have to agree with Gus. Surely breeders are motivated by pedigree, confirmation and racing class among other things rather than customer service.
If they send a mare to Darley and that mare provides a cracking foal by a Darley stallion there is every chance they will go back to the same stallion again….I dont think thats very difficult to understand.
The idea that owners are going to "blame" a stud if a stallion suddenly dies, or proves infertile, during a covering season is totally ridiculous.
Example:
When the "old" Lord Derby’s mighty stallion Phalaris died prematurely from a heart attack in February 1931, after only a few coverings, did breeders then decide not to patronise his stallions like Pharos, Fairway, or a few years later, Hyperion?
Did they go off in a huff because he didn’t immediately provide them with another son of Polymelus as a replacement?
Of course not.
I am a breeder and since the breeding season only started on Feb 15th and many mares even if they foaled early are not yet ready to meet the stallions I think this thread is overestimating the" Coolmore doing a goodwill gesture to customers" thing. As a real goodwill gesture to those mares who missed GW because he could not perform Coolemore could offer a proven Danehill sire in Danehill Dancer( at GW’s fee) who would be fully capable of adding another 20 mares or so to his book. For those mares not yet arrived they will make other arrangements in any event. HRE is not GW and the market will not consider him so. If I owned Sal’s 3 mares they would not be visiting HRE. I would expect travel cost and board refunds from Coolmore and I would be off to the second choice stallion I had on my list at Coolmores expense as far as non fee items were concerned.
Quote: from Galejade on 4:44 pm on Mar. 11, 2007[br]I am a breeder and since the breeding season only started on Feb 15th and many mares even if they foaled early are not yet ready to meet the stallions I think this thread is overestimating the" Coolmore doing a goodwill gesture to customers" thing. As a real goodwill gesture to those mares who missed GW because he could not perform Coolemore could  offer a proven Danehill sire in Danehill Dancer( at GW’s fee) who would be fully capable of adding another 20 mares or so to his book. For those mares not yet arrived they will make other arrangements in any event. HRE is not GW and the market will not consider him so. If I owned Sal’s 3 mares they would not be visiting HRE. I would expect travel cost and board refunds from Coolmore and I would be off to the second choice stallion I had on my list at Coolmores expense as far as non fee items were concerned.
Im in the same situation as you and in the past we have used Coolmore stallions. I can only agree with regard to this idea of a goodwill gesture. For one thing, coolmore is not on another planet and there is loads of time and easy access to other sires. Also, why is it people assume HRE would be a natural replacement to GW. There two completely different animals.
I think its reasonably obvious to suggest that they felt HREs best days were already had.
Just on the person who sent three mares to the same first season sire. I doubt that would be considered shrewed if your looking to avoid disaster, however Coolmore and its connections often splash out well over the odds for there own first season projeny thus giving them a big push.
SHL
Of course a fair proportion of George’s mares won’t be suited ideally to HRE – but then lots of then probably wouldn’t have been suited to George either, just sent to him because he’s a Danehill and he’s the hype horse of the moment, so for some of the breeders I don’t think it will matter a jot (not an approach I like, but it happens).  For what its worth, I think HRE has capacity to be a far better stallion than George in the end, although commercially he would have benefitted from a successful 3yo campaign.
I reiterate: even if breeders’ second choice stallion is available, and the mare is able to travel, then it still involves hassle in altering arrangements.  It is far more convenient and professional for Coolmore to offer an immediate, if not ideal alternative.  And as Danehill Dancer covered 184 mares last season and will probably have a similar number booked, then no, I don’t think he can ‘squeeze in another 20’.
Sorry to butt back in, interrupted mid-post by small child.
Oratorio, in his first season last year, had 153 booked mares.  George would be expected to get at least the same.  So even as the later half of his book would probably find it relatively easy to find alternatives, and a few others could still be switched to others on the Coolmore roster, you’re still talking about 50+ mares who would be left high and dry.  If Coolmore can find a replacement stallion to fit that gap, then it makes sound business and logical sense for them to do so.  Coolmore’s competitors would be rubbing their hands to get hold of George’s book, and provide incentives to keep them.
And as Danehill Dancer covered 184 mares last season and will probably have a similar number booked, then no, I don’t think he can ‘squeeze in another 20’.
Beat me to it!! Squeeze in twenty where!?!?!<br>
There’s a good piece on this subject by Greg Wood in today’s Guardian. He rightly states that "what must not be allowed to take root…is any notion that [Holy Roman Emperor] was an unlucky horse, robbed of his chance to prove his Classic credentials by the impotence of his former stablemate."
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