- This topic has 35 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Just have to say, what a load of old bollocks Luck and Cunningham talked regarding the Stewards Enquiry in the Falmouth. Yes, she drifted but they never touched. The boys managed to ham it up in great style and went on about sustained drifting, definitely cost the runner up a neck etc etc, this continued with talk about a possible watershed decision and all other sorts of nonsense.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, trainer John Gosden was calm and unconcerned stating that there was no contact. Seasoned punters who had watched Al Kazeem’s race last week knew that no panel worth its salt could have disqualified Elusive Kate after seeing Al Kazeem keep his race. Finally, the bookies were offering 6/1 that Sky Lantern would get the race. Yet, back in the studio Beavis and his mate were still wittering on about it being very tense. A millisecond later the klaxon sounds and Walter Mitty and his sparring partner Rip Van Winkle wake up to find that the rules are still being carried out the same way they were last week.
Very poor broadcasting by numbers on a cheap paint set.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The only "rubbish" is talked on this thread.
Had there been no "contact", a neck would not be enough to see the result changed. As Cunningham & Luck pointed out.
Short head would’ve been enough even without "contact". Head possible…
However, there was "
contact
" of whip on head, I saw once but Hughes claimed twice. That contact meant a change was possible with a neck difference; though still unlikely. 1/6 quoted by presenters being
before
people realised Sky Lantern had been hit by the Buick whip. Don’t know what the price was afterwards, suspect it changed.
I thought Mitty and Winkle did a pretty good job. Neither of them expected the result to be changed.
Value Is EverythingI agree with most of stevecaution’s post.
It was a tough one for the stewards considering how Elusive Kate apparently broke down Canford Cliffs/Cockney Rebel style and carried Sky Lantern across the track.
I think it is impossible to say with confidence that Sky Lantern would have won the race without the interference. She was about three quarters of a length behind when Elusive Kate began to swerve and a similar distance behind at the line. It was not as if Sky Lantern had rapidly made up a few lengths and seemed poised to go past the leader. It is possible that the grey would have overtaken Elusive Kate, but there is so much doubt about that. Given that, I don’t see how the result could have been reversed. It would have been pure guesswork.
Great points about Luck and Cunningham, Steve. Their comments were melodramatic and irresponsible. Check out the C4 Facebook page to see dozens of angry Sky Lantern backers using the presenter comments to justify some very flimsy grievance with the result.
Just have to say, what a load of old bollocks Luck and Cunningham talked regarding the Stewards Enquiry in the Falmouth. Yes, she drifted but they never touched. The boys managed to ham it up in great style and went on about sustained drifting, definitely cost the runner up a neck etc etc, this continued with talk about a possible watershed decision and all other sorts of nonsense.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, trainer John Gosden was calm and unconcerned stating that there was no contact. Seasoned punters who had watched Al Kazeem’s race last week knew that no panel worth its salt could have disqualified Elusive Kate after seeing Al Kazeem keep his race. Finally, the bookies were offering 6/1 that Sky Lantern would get the race. Yet, back in the studio Beavis and his mate were still wittering on about it being very tense. A millisecond later the klaxon sounds and Walter Mitty and his sparring partner Rip Van Winkle wake up to find that the rules are still being carried out the same way they were last week.
Very poor broadcasting by numbers on a cheap paint set.
Do you think SL wouldnt have won if it were allowed to continue straight while EK went for a walk???
SHL
Bit of a mixed bag from Luck and Cunningham imo, some good points but then also some stupid comments.
Thought the Stewards room discussion was great, Never had a bet in the race with my initial opinion being Elusive Kate should keep the race, however having listened to Hughes in the stewards room I thought they were going to reverse it.
Well said Steve!!!! until these rules are changed there is no way they can even speculate
EK
could of lost that race!!!
The only "rubbish" is talked on this thread.
Had there been no "contact", a neck would not be enough to see the result changed. As Cunningham & Luck pointed out.
Short head would’ve been enough even without "contact". Head possible…
However, there was "
contact
" of whip on head, I saw once but Hughes claimed twice. That contact meant a change was possible with a neck difference; though still unlikely. 1/6 quoted by presenters being
before
people realised Sky Lantern had been hit by the Buick whip. Don’t know what the price was afterwards, suspect it changed.
I thought Mitty and Winkle did a pretty good job. Neither of them expected the result to be changed.
Yes the odds on Betfair for Sky Lantern getting it went from 11 down to 4/1 (I got a tiny bit of arbitrage out of it).
Steve you seem to believe that the horse with the most ability should always win and the "Best" horse won but once again, the word not being used here is merit, and merit is more difficult to define.
In the scenario that SL is allowed to run straight and win while EK goes for a walk across the park. Would you say that SL merited victory???. I would argue yes as its a real asset to be able to run straight and be uncomplicated.
I dont think EK and his jockey should be rewarded for not allowing
SL to run its race.SHL
having listened to Hughes in the stewards room I thought they were going to reverse it.
Hughes will be nominated for The Golden Globes, The Baftas and The Oscars on the back of that performance in the stewards room! If only he could put so much heart into giving the punters a decent tip for one of his mounts
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The only "rubbish" is talked on this thread.
Had there been no "contact", a neck would not be enough to see the result changed. As Cunningham & Luck pointed out.
Short head would’ve been enough even without "contact". Head possible…
However, there was "
contact
" of whip on head, I saw once but Hughes claimed twice. That contact meant a change was possible with a neck difference; though still unlikely. 1/6 quoted by presenters being
before
people realised Sky Lantern had been hit by the Buick whip. Don’t know what the price was afterwards, suspect it changed.
I thought Mitty and Winkle did a pretty good job. Neither of them expected the result to be changed.
Yes the odds on Betfair for Sky Lantern getting it went from 11 down to 4/1 (I got a tiny bit of arbitrage out of it).
Steve you seem to believe that the horse with the most ability should always win and the "Best" horse won but once again, the word not being used here is merit, and merit is more difficult to define.
In the scenario that SL is allowed to run straight and win while EK goes for a walk across the park. Would you say that SL merited victory???. I would argue yes as its a real asset to be able to run straight and be uncomplicated.
I dont think EK and his jockey should be rewarded for not allowing
SL to run its race.My view is that Elusive Kate would probably have won anyway. Like it or not the rules are written to favour the horse who finishes ahead. Stewards have to be certain that any interference definitely caused the winner to improve it’s position relative to the sufferer. The rights or wrongs of that is a seperate issue, the rules are what they are. Can you definitely say Sky Lantern would have won with a clear run? That is the question the Stewards had to answer and it took them very little time to say no. My issue is with the carry on the presenters made of it all, no doubt like two kiddies overexcited at seeing the enquiry live and losing track of the fact that the rules meant it was highly unlikely Sky Lantern had anything coming. A good caning from Ms Balding for both boys and no more new toys until they can control their emotions.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Was there interference? Yes. That is why the Stewards gave William Buick a four-day ban.
Did it affect the result? It seems that the Stewards went for a bit of guesswork on that one, as they usually do. But in this case they did not have to. There is evidence from the past that Sky Lantern would have run straight. She ran at a diagonal because of the interference. Good old Pythagoras’ Theorem says that she ran nearly four feet further than she would have if she had kept straight. A Length is reckoned to be eight feet. On that basis, if the Stewards were to have followed the BHA rule, Sky Lantern should have got the race. That is not counting the effect of a smack on the nose from Buick’s whip, or any effect of intimidation, or other such stuff. Maybe the Stewards did not have anyone available to calculate The Square on the Hypotenuse for them. They did not seem the type to have had that sort of educational background.
Is it obligatory now to state that I did not have a bet on the race?
My wife happening to catch this enquiry whilst switching between channels. Her interest in the sport in passing due to my interest, and my dragging her around the racecourses! After I explained the gist of the rule to her she concluded that it seemed reasoanble that Elusive Kate should keep the race. She did find it interesting that proceedings were televised, though her opinions on both jockeys and stewards weren’t altogether complimentary!
For what it’s worth I thought Sky Lantern just followed the same course as Elusive Kate and wasn’t stopped in her running. As the rules stand it was no brainer that Elusive Kate would keep the race. If anything she was asserting at the finish. If there was an issue it may have been because the William Buick’s whip caught Sky Lantern, but that could only be punished if he could be seen to be careless and in my opinion that was not the case.
Rob
If you’ve just seen what I’ve seen at Trent Bridge, perhaps Aleem Dar was involved in the decision?
Mike
Was there interference? Yes. That is why the Stewards gave William Buick a four-day ban.
Did it affect the result? It seems that the Stewards went for a bit of guesswork on that one, as they usually do. But in this case they did not have to. There is evidence from the past that Sky Lantern would have run straight. She ran at a diagonal because of the interference. Good old Pythagoras’ Theorem says that she ran nearly four feet further than she would have if she had kept straight. A Length is reckoned to be eight feet. On that basis, if the Stewards were to have followed the BHA rule, Sky Lantern should have got the race. That is not counting the effect of a smack on the nose from Buick’s whip, or any effect of intimidation, or other such stuff. Maybe the Stewards did not have anyone available to calculate The Square on the Hypotenuse for them. They did not seem the type to have had that sort of educational background.
Is it obligatory now to state that I did not have a bet on the race?
I put your point to the stewards and they said the following explains that Elusive Kate would have won the race:-
Vector2D objects(Assuming your positions are vectors):
Vector2D diffVec(B.posVec-A.posVec);
diffVec.normlize(); //Assuming it’s applied on the vector itself
// and does not return a new one.
//This vector is now a unit vector which represents the heading/Direction
//without the "speed" (Well its speed is 1, more precisely its MAGNITUDE is 1).diffVec.multiply(speed);
camera.velocity = diffVec;
The normalize function would probably look something like this:
void Vector2D::normalize(){
float len = length();
this.x /= len;
this.y /= len;
};float Vector2D::length(){
return sqrt(x*x+y*y);
};Now if you’re not using vectors this could be translated to:
float dx = destinationX-positionX;
float dy = destinationY-positionY;Let’s pretend dx and dy are the components of an imaginary vector. ( And by components I mean the x and y properties ).
We can perform the same calculations as we have in our Vector2D class: First we need to "normalize" our imaginary vector by dividing it by its length. Pythagoras theorem, remember that one?
float length = sqrtf(dx*dx+dy*dy);
Now we use this to normalize our imaginary vector:
dx/=length;
dy/=length;Now if we were to apply the Pythagoras theorem on our new dx and dy value you will notice that the length is 1. Meaning that we have a direction, and a magnitude of 1. To change it to our speed simply multiply each component by it.
dx *= speed;
dy *= speed;cam.velocityX = dx;
cam.velocityY = dy;Imagine a vector to be an arrow with a specific length. When you normalize it you bring the length to one.
So if you multiply it ( by a scalar ), the speed in this case, the x and y components adjust accordingly that the length of the vector is the speed it’s multiplied with.
I agree with them
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I don’t understand the comments about the apparent lack of contact. Is Gosden, and everyone else supporting his quote, saying that Richard Hughes would have strengthened his and his horses chances by ploughing in to EK?
Crazy comment from Gosden IMO.
I agreed wholeheartedly with both Graham Cunningham and Nick Luck’s opinion. The placings should have been reversed.
Cunningham, who backed the winner, made a very persuasive case as to why Sky Lantern should have been promoted to first place. The most telling phrase he used was " sustained intimidation " by the winner Elusive Kate from two furlongs out.
It looked plainly obvious to me that Richard Hughes’s 3 year filly was made to veer across the track due to the older filly hanging badly, and coupled with receiving ( albeit unintentionally ) three cracks of William Buick’s whip across her face, was intimidated enough not to go through with her effort.
Had Elusive Kate maintained a straight(ish) line then I have little doubt ( as does Hughes ) that Sky lantern would have passed Elusive Kate and went on to win the race.
As Cunningham and Luck also pointed out, most countries would have "chucked " the winner out.
In my opinion it was a poor decision by the stewards.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
- Total Posts 764
Agree with himself completely
As Steve Caution pointed out and I quote "no panel worth its salt could have disqualified Elusive Kate after seeing Al Kazeem keep his race". Perhaps that is the flaw in the system.No clear rules, just what Steve pointed out. Pretty soon it becomes a total flawed way of judging and disqualifying the guilty party.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.