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El Gran Senor was put down on Wednesday morning.
He was a great horse. I was at Newmarket the day he won the Guineas. He put a vintage field to the sword in tremendous style. I rate him the best miler I’ve seen.
I would echo that Gus.  El Gran Senor was one of my all time favourite horses.  A hugely talented horse.  As you say, a splendid performance at Newmarket. For me his Epsom Derby was one of the most memorable races in the 1980’s.  I thought that race must rank as one of Pat Eddery’s biggest miscalculations in his career. A great run from Secreto of course that day. At the Curragh he showed that he was good enough to win at 12f. (just as the the Brigadier did at Ascot). I believe EGS was without doubt one of the greatest I have seen.  <br>
(Edited by apalachee at 11:59 am on Oct. 20, 2006)
He never took on older horses in a Group 1, did he? If a supposed champion was retired like that today there’d be howls of derision, injured or not. Hell, these days you can be a champion 2yo, a Guineas winner, overcome a serious injury at 3 and go on to stuff the older horses in a performance rated >130 and still be derided upon announcement of your retirement.
Unlike George Washington, El Gran Senor beat proper horses in establishing his greatness. To demolish the likes of Chief Singer, Lear Fan and Rainbow Quest in the Guineas was a performance not far behind that of Brigadier Gerard over a decade previously, and his subsequent defeat of the aforementioned Rainbow Quest over 12 furlongs in the Irish Derby makes him more brilliant and with an infinitely greater range than his modern contemporary at Ballydoyle.
El Gran Senor beat proper horses in establishing his greatness.
It’s amazing how horses become more proper the longer ago they ran.
El Gran Senor was a proper G1 performer. A great racehorse. The opposition he demolished in that 2000 was no less than absolutly top class. As Steve Mellish says, he had at least five G1 performers toiling in his wake that day.<br>Very sad that he is gone.
One of the most talented horses ever to have graced a racecourse.
R.I.P the great El Gran Senor
It’s not about having doubts, it’s about being consistent in what we require from a horse in order to consider them true greats. Either taking on and beating older horses is a pre-requisite, or it’s not. Today’s horses have their form pulled apart mercilessly whilst those who were around 20+ years ago get a free pass.
why was he put down?
 Hi Pogle.<br> <br>       Firstly, welcome to the forum:) <br> <br> According to the reports he was put down due to the infirmities of old age. I guess the years were just catching up on the old boy.<br> A fantastic racehorse, who to my mind was the second best miler i have ever witnessed.
  Pure Class.
Thank you for the info and thanks for the welcome.looking forward to sharing the forum.
Welcome to the Forum pogle.
Secreto’s win paid for my wife’s engagement ring after a Derby double with Darshaan was landed so I often wish El Gran Senor had got up! ;)
However, he was a great racehorse and his Guineas win was a fantastic effort.
Quote: from Gareth Flynn on 11:30 am on Oct. 20, 2006[br]
El Gran Senor beat proper horses in establishing his greatness.
It’s amazing how horses become more proper the longer ago they ran.<br>
Exactly. This is exactly what I think.
‘El Gran Senor was a proper G1 performer.  A great racehorse.  The opposition he demolished in that 2000 was no less than absolutly top class.  As Steve Mellish says, he had at least five G1 performers toiling in his wake that day. <br>Very sad that he is gone.’
How does that distinguish from George Washington? Sir Percy, Araafa, Amadeus Wolf, Killybegs, Frost Giant…
Haafhd – Azamour, Grey Swallow, Whipper, Milk It Mick, One Cool Cat…
So why aren’t they held in such high regard? Because they weren’t racing 20 years ago, they are racing now….
In 30 years time, they’ll have Best Mate and Arkle on a par….
Sea Bird wins the Derby in a canter by 2 lengths and is labelled the greatest thing ever – George Washington wins by 1 1/4lengths in a canter, yet the form is rubbished and he is branded a winner of a poor generation.
Meadow Court won the Irish Derby & King George. Araafa won the Irish Guineas and St. James’s Palace. Araafa won weak renewals though apparently. Why weren’t Meadow Court’s renewals weak? Oh that’s why…because they took place more than 40 years ago.
Ever thought that maybe Arkle won handicaps giving so much weight away because the rest of the field was crap?
Rock of Gibraltar only beat 2 real ‘stars’ in the Guineas – Hawk Wing and Where or When…so why is he a superstar? Surely the form there is very ‘weak’…
The vendetta against the horses of today is ridiculous. They could be just as good or even better than horses of old – nobody knows.
Times won’t tell you – ratings won’t tell you – nothing will tell you.
But I would like to add my condolences to the death of a great champion, El Gran Senor. I was very sad to see the news and hope his progeny can produce more superstars on his behalf.
(Edited by jackane24 at 12:17 am on Oct. 21, 2006)
How does that distinguish from George Washington? Sir Percy, Araafa, Amadeus Wolf, Killybegs, Frost Giant…
GW’s 2000 guineas didn’t have half as much strength in depth as the 1984 race had. Half of the 1984 field were no less than top class. Killybegs? Puleeze … <br>What has Amadeus Wolf done since? Not a lot. And who is Frost Giant? Never heard of the animal ;)<br>Why are they not held in such regard? Because they are/were not as good. Simple as that.<br>EGS beat horses that went on to stamp the form as outstanding. Sir Percy won an ordinary Derby, in which his main competitor broke down and his main challenger ran as green as grass. Then he blew out in his only other race. The form of this year’s 2000 guineas has more holes in it than a chunk of emmental.<br>Of course, that doesn’t mean that GW is no good. He is the best miler of this year’s crop. But how good is that crop? Araafa has not exactly failed to dissapoint either.<br>EGS’s 2000 was probably the best guineas in the past 30 years, all told.
I see your point RD, but who decides if the form is weak or strong?
What if the races that the also-rans in EGS’s Derby went on to win were weak?
I’m not denying EGS was good, but all I’m saying is that people are very quick to dismiss form of races this century, simply because they didn’t happen 20 or 30 years ago.
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