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I disagree Robert
Connections couldn’t know how GW would go on slop or at Monmouth or against these horse as he never run on it or against the majority of the field and neither could anyone else
And this is what i’ve been trying to say
It’s ok for people to say this that and tuther, but that is estimation or opinion and not fact
The facts are GW hated every minute by sounds of it and paid ultimate price
We are now wiser, the event has finished and after it we know Curlin is the best Dirt horse in the World and GW is dead
I disagree Robert
Connections couldn’t know how GW would go on slop or at Monmouth or against these horse as he never run on it or against the majority of the field and neither could anyone else
And this is what i’ve been trying to say
It’s ok for people sayto this that and tuther, but that is estimation or opinion and not fact
The facts are GW hated every minute by sounds of it and paid ultimate price
We are now wiser,the event has finished, we know Curlin is the best Dirt horse in the World and GW is dead
EW,
Fair enough, but If I can tell from a horse’s build, stride length, pastern length and action more or less what track type, what range of distance, track surface and going it can race effectively on, then I am sure someone in AOB’s team can with spades. They as a world leading stable have all the facilities to video analyse all this scientifically and test whatever they need to out on a range of gallops and tracks. They know exactly how tough and furious the pace that Breeder’s Cup races are run at. There is little room left for opinion or guesswork.
Robert
That is just your opinion,
the people who train and own the horse would probably know him better than anyone and in their opinion they thought him capable
Both are opinion only, nothing more
Facts
the result
It’s simple and why so many are finding it so hard to separate the two is unreal
Don’t understand the argument that some seem to be making that connections somehow knew George Washington wouldn’t handle the surface..
Handled the surface well at Churchill Downs last year IMO (travelled well for a long way) and, of course it was a guessing game as to how he would react to such a sloppy surface.. however, I imagine that applied to many of the runners in the field (though they were of course far more familiar to the surface)..
It’s easy to say with the benefit of hindsight that "it was a clear he wouldn’t handle the surface"/"he had no chance" but it would be dead wrong to point the finger of blame at connections..
While Coolmore is of course a commercial operation, anybody who suggests that the welfare of the horse was not put first is talking utter bollocks IMO.. just one of those unfortunate incidents..
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Fair enough, but If I can tell from a horse’s build, stride length, pastern length and action more or less what track type, what range of distance, track surface and going it can race effectively on, then I am sure someone in AOB’s team can with spades. They as a world leading stable have all the facilities to video analyse all this scientifically and test whatever they need to out on a range of gallops and tracks. They know exactly how tough and furious the pace that Breeder’s Cup races are run at. There is little room left for opinion or guesswork.
Robert
Then why, on the eve of the race itself, did his jockey express the opinion that 10f was the horse’s best trip nowadays?
quote:
While Coolmore is of course a commercial operation, anybody who suggests that the welfare of the horse was not put first is talking utter bollocks IMO.. just one of those unfortunate incidents..
Then I have gonads coming out of my mouth right now. This was a commercial decision first – a welfare decision second (at best).
What was the commercial decision?
Chances of him winning the Classic x Chances of him suddenly becoming fertile again > Chances of him breaking a leg?
quote:
This was a commercial decision first – a welfare decision second (at best).All due respect Beeswing, I could not disagree more. While it was undoubtedly a step in to the unknown, to suggest that connections flippantly disregarded the welfare of the horse (a horse that clearly meant so much to them) is well wide of the mark IMO.
I would have been inclined to run the horse in the Mile.
However, his connections would not have risked the horse if they thought the ground was unsafe. The dirt track was an absolute mess on Friday evening and even worse on Saturday. Robert is correct, the Monmouth officials did a great job preparing and repairing the ground in those conditions.
Amongst the furore surrounding the death of GW, we forget that the formbook held up and only one horse lost his life. Dylan Thomas was the most noticeable defeat but he was never going to act on that ground, around that track with such a short straight after the hard season he’d had. But, like GW, this was going to be his final race and they were entitled to run.
Passage Of Time and Excellent Art ran superb races – can you imagine the reaction had Spencer been in the saddle after Murtagh’s belated effort?
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I believe the photograph on the attached link says it all about the surface at Monmouth on Saturday.
http://www.racingpost.co.uk/images/graphics/george_classic510.jpg
It is quite clear that the leading horse’s off-fore hoof is well below the racing surface and, while it is a moot point whether it was safe or not, it is certainly very different from anything GW would have encountered previously, at home or on the racecourse.
It’s not how far below the surface the horses hoof goes that matters – the same thing can happen on fast dirt and, indeed, Polytrack – it’s what it’s hitting under there that is the potential problem.
If GW had won, AOB would have been have still been vilified. Its the same old tired **** that I’ve come to expect reading some of the contributors here regarding AOB and Ballydoyle, any excuses to get a few digs in. Sad.
[quote="empty wallet
GW was trying his hardest to do what the jockey wanted him do and that was go with the pace set , he couldn’t and paid the ultimate price, no one could have seen that, just like no one could have seen last years break downs coming or Haratio Nelsons, Gypsy Kings etc etcSorry this is late but I’ve been away from the foum for a few days and a lot has happened in the meantime.
I could not let this one go. "Nobody could have foreseen Horatio Nelson’s breakdown" Are you serious?
I remember yelling at the TV at the time "Withdraw the horse. OK, it’s the Derby but he’s not right. Just withdraw the horse". I’m sure that I wasn’t alone in that view.For the record, I have no problem with them running GW last Saturday. No reason why not, it just had an unforeseen tragic result
.Peter
Yes Peter i’m serious, because if they’d seen it coming he wouldn’t have run
Do you really think they would intentionally run a horse they knew was hurt with the world watching
KF thought there was summat wrong, it was inspected and passed fit to race , it raced for about 9f and the broke down
KF probably regrets not withdrawing him, but he decided to race, he took a decision, it ended up the wrong one
Decision are made everyday, most of em will be right, but ultimately some will be wrong, some with fatal consequences
Peter
Yes Peter i’m serious, because if they’d seen it coming he wouldn’t have run
Do you really think they would intentionally run a horse they knew was hurt with the world watching
KF thought there was summat wrong, it was inspected and passed fit to race , it raced for about 9f and the broke down
KF probably regrets not withdrawing him, but he decided to race, he took a decision, it ended up the wrong one
Decision are made everyday, most of em will be right, but ultimately some will be wrong, some with fatal consequences
They (KF and AOB) took a gamble with the horse’s wellbeing and lost. Would they have run the horse in a 6f Maiden at Naas under the same circs?
Where a horse’s welfare is concerned the size of purse and stallion value should be immaterial.They (KF and AOB) took a gamble with the horse’s wellbeing and lost.
Yes , they did, just like every other owner takes a gamble when they send a horse to race
It’s an unknown if their horse is going to return unscathed and why you lot can’t see this is beyond me
Talk of banging head against wall
They (KF and AOB) took a gamble with the horse’s wellbeing and lost.
Yes , they did, just like every other owner takes a gamble when they send a horse to race
It’s an unknown if their horse is going to return unscathed and why you lot can’t see this is beyond me
Talk of banging head against wall
Why are you equating the HR situation with that of any owner sending their horse to run in any race?
Fallon thought that there may have been something wrong with the horse when he arrived at the start of one of the most physically demanding flat races run anywhere but after consulting with the connections it was decided to give it a go.
Surely that makes this an extraordinary case and it cannot just be dismissed as being the same risk everybody takes when they send a horse to the races?
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