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As I have advised you elsewhere the main thrust of my initial post was to recall the great Golden Cygnet and hope that Darlan will be as fondly remembered in 35 years time. You chose to completely ignore that, conveniently, and focus on a negative.
Just ask yourself Ivanjica, would Tony McCoy think the "main thrust of your initial post" to be positive?
Value Is EverythingJust ask yourself Ivanjica, would Tony McCoy think the "main thrust of your initial post" to be positive?
Though I doubt it would bother you one iota, you may as well know that as a result of your antics in this thread, you’ve really gone down in my estimation.
I would be surprised if the Daily Fascist, sorry Mail, don’t have something about it tomorrow.
Why do you think the Mail is a ‘fascist’ paper, Paul?
In the 1930’s is actively supported Hitler but that is historic.
However, and I appreciate there is no strictly agreed definition of fascism, if you take the view that fascism is "antiliberalist" and / or " behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline" then it could well be argued the epithet suits the Daily Mail.
It supported the brownshirts and blackshirts for about ten months in 1934 then publicly backed out of it when it realised what those regimes meant. The Guardian has employed apologists for soviet communism, including the invasion of Hungary and Stalin, right up until the present day, without any explanation or apology. This is never scoffed at by Labour Party supporters or liberals. I doubt whether they even know it. Do you?
Moreover – and this usually comes as a surprise to socialists or pretend-socialists, of which there are an enormous amount in the UK – fascist political views are VERY close to left-wing views. Mussolini began as a socialist and Hitler’s party was a socialist movement in that it believed in collectivism and a collectivist approach to government: high taxes and an intrusive executive for the building of an enormous super-powerful supposedly beneficient State. Sound familiar? You’ve been voting for that all your life, laddy.
On the other hand, conservatism of the type trumpeted by the daily mail is anti-state, small government, anti-collectivist, and pro free speech and libertarian. A good deal more classically liberal than you may think at first glance.As I have advised you elsewhere the main thrust of my initial post was to recall the great Golden Cygnet and hope that Darlan will be as fondly remembered in 35 years time. You chose to completely ignore that, conveniently, and focus on a negative.
Just ask yourself Ivanjica, would Tony McCoy think the "main thrust of your initial post" to be positive?
Given McCoy is renowned as a massive self critic when mistakes are made, I am sure he will at some stage consider if he could have done things differently yesterday. You are no more qualified than me to speculate what McCoy is thinking. And may I remind you that my original comment wad neither positive or negative. It was simply wondering could the fall have been avoided.
Btw I dont regard my previous response as being in anyway personal, merely responding in a style not unlike the one you favour. If you want to twist people’s words, question theirmotives and sling mud then you need to expect to be answered in kind.
In the meantime I wonder are you able to confirm or deny you are also "befair".
Finally I will refer you back to Bachelors Halls contributions to this thead and suggest you stop and take a reality check.
Well, that for me goes down as the most stupid post I have ever seen on this forum.
And that’s saying something! You really have not got a clue "Ghost".Every now and again, a ghost returns to haunt a particular carrot-topped tout…
If AP "takes more risks and is more aggressive" then that would show up on the amount of falls.
Of course but it’s more like a double-edged sword to me though. Taking risks and being aggressive can lead to great success or dismal failure.
Please provide the statistics! I suspect percentage-wise AP has fewer falls than most jockeys. Has so few injuries that it has enabled him not just to win so many jockeys titles on the bounce, but to win them by a wide margin. If you are correct that AP has more fatalities attributed to his mounts – then surely that is due to having far more rides than anyone else. Please provide statistics to back your theories up, or are you happy to condemn the man on heresay?
Betlarge had beaten me to it with the stats. Dang! I don’t condemn AP’s success. His overall record and titles speaks volumes about him. Still, 20 fatalities in the 5 years are permanent inkblots in his story book.
Am sure some horses are more suited to Ruby Walsh’s style and some AP’s, but AP can adapt. It wasn’t long ago that he was criticised by some for a sympethetic ride on Binnocular on reappearance.
Now that’s bad! It’d be like someone who ‘hasn’t got a clue’ criticising you for misspelling sympathetic and Binocular.
Could it be that Clive Smith was looking for an excuse for Kauto Star’s defeat? The horse was below form all season long for whoever rode him. Walsh himself often made mistakes at the last fence on him. One time Ruby remounting is thought to have injured the horse.
For a horse who was below form all season long, it still didn’t stop him winning the jnwine.com Champion Chase 2 months earlier. And then you say "Walsh himself often made mistakes at the last fence on him" …. oh the irony! So it’s OK for Mr Walsh to make mistakes then and not Mr McCoy?
"Ghost" pretty much sums you up mate, looking for a supernatural reason for something happening.
In that case …
When you think about NH and F1, they’re worlds apart but similar in nature. Both sports have dedicated followers and those who like to bet on the outcome of the contests. We have the jockey/driver, horse/car and trainers/mechanics. Horse has 4 legs and the car has 4 wheels … except that one is a living thing and the other is a man-made machine. The races get underway … jockey/driver galvanizes their horse/car to get maximum performance in order to win. Accidents inevitably happen at some point. Sometimes the driver crashes when a piece of machinery fails or a tyre blows just like the way a horse might snap a leg during running. On these occasions, the horse/car breaks down and there’s nothing the jockey/driver can do about it. Then there are situations where the jockey/driver both leave themselves no margin for error and a mistake ensues. If a driver crashes his machine into another car, it’s his fault for misjudging during the heat of the moment and the timing of the challenge. Yet, when a jockey makes a similar error and the mount crashes into or over a fence or hurdle, the vast majority of people will say (if this thread is anything to go by) "It wasn’t the jockeys fault" … which only leaves one thing, the poor horse gets the blame!
The difference is, a car doesn’t have a brain but a horse does. In a strange kinda way, things get reversed. A driver might treat the car as though it has a soul and accepts the full responsibility of the crash.
The horse on the other hand might feel that the jockey is pushing and shoving too much and the only way it can respond is by making a mistake through confusion as the fence looms large. Does the jockey then become the machine?
Ivanjica,
To say Darlan’s death might be the fault of Tony McCoy, yet moan about me not believing what you said was "in the heat of the moment" I find remarkable and hypocritical.I am fed up of anonymous people saying whatever they like about those within racing (with no evidence to back it up)… and then moaning if anyone dares to say anything negative about the author in reply.
This Darlan thread should be about showing sympathy to connections. Yes, I applaud your words comparing Darlan to Golden Cygnet; but it is a shame you don’t show any sympathy to his jockey Ivanjica. Your words about AP were (whether intentionally or not) the opposite of sympathetic. And don’t talk xxxx about your
"original comment wad neither positive or negative. It was simply wondering could the fall have been avoided"
. Your words were not as bad as Ghost Of Rob, but you were the first person here to call in to question the riding of Tony McCoy and speculated whether it had something to do with Darlan’s death. Something there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate.
Value Is EverythingBtw I dont regard my previous response as being in anyway personal, merely responding in a style not unlike the one you favour. If you want to twist people’s words, question theirmotives and sling mud then you need to expect to be answered in kind.
In the meantime I wonder are you able to confirm or deny you are also "befair".
Finally I will refer you back to Bachelors Halls contributions to this thead and suggest you stop and take a reality check.
It is you who’s twisting my words.
You are making things personal Ivanjica, but not in any way that I can’t handle. Got no problem with continuing on these pages. Just thought this of all threads should not be the place for this sort of conversation. Am sure neutral members don’t want to read it.
Take another look at my pms Ivanjica, I have already answered your question. I am known by only one name, on this and other forums.
As to your question asking me how much money I am making as a pro. MYOB.
Value Is EverythingAnd then you say "Walsh himself often made mistakes at the last fence on him" ….
oh the irony! So it’s OK for Mr Walsh to make mistakes then and not Mr McCoy?
That was my point exactly Ghost
, you chose to castigate Tony McCoy’s record and only Tony McCoy! As if his record is so much worse than any other jockey! That he must be somehow at fault! Not looking at statistics in a measured way at all.You chose to jump on McCoy, whether the evidence points to any failure on his part or not. Yet despite giving no evidence, you blamed McCoy for the deaths of horses.
Value Is EverythingBetlarge had beaten me to it with the stats. Dang! I don’t condemn AP’s success. His overall record and titles speaks volumes about him.
Still, 20 fatalities in the 5 years are permanent inkblots in his story book.
Why are "20 fatalities in 5 years permanent inkblots"? Were they all his fault? If so in what way?
You compared jockeys to drivers Ghost. Are you suggesting every driver of a car involved in a fatal car crash is at fault? With "permanent inkblots" against their names.
Value Is Everythingmy initial post was to recall the great Golden Cygnet and hope that Darlan will be as fondly remembered in 35 years time.
I very much doubt that.
In their novice year Darlan was beaten in the Supreme Novices whilst Golden Cygnet won the same race by fifteen lengths. There’s also a world of difference between beating the likes of Raya Star and mixing with Rock On Ruby in your first season out of novice company and cantering all over Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon whilst still a novice!
By any definition of form, Golden Cygnet really was ‘the one that got away’.
Mike
Still, 20 fatalities in the 5 years are permanent inkblots in his story book.
That’s unfair on AP. You’re reading those stats in the same way as The Daily Mail presented them i.e. using the total number of fatalities as the headline figure rather than the statistically significant ‘rides per fatality’.
Evidently AP has more fatalities as he has ridden in more races. But in that list (which is limited to only 12 jockeys anyway) McCoy is well down in 7th place overall.
What may be of concern is the high number of deaths associated with Ruby Walsh – frequently cited by pundits as the perfect exponent of how to hold a horse together.
Mike
Betlarge had beaten me to it with the stats. Dang! I don’t condemn AP’s success. His overall record and titles speaks volumes about him.
Still, 20 fatalities in the 5 years are permanent inkblots in his story book.
Why are "20 fatalities in 5 years permanent inkblots"? Were they all his fault? If so in what way?
By the same token you may well want to consider why you chose to introduce capitals in your original post. It is a game of opinions – you seem to find it incredibly difficult to accept that some people may have a different opinion to your own.
Unfortunately, I am constantly reminded of this advert:-
Betlarge had beaten me to it with the stats. Dang! I don’t condemn AP’s success. His overall record and titles speaks volumes about him.
Still, 20 fatalities in the 5 years are permanent inkblots in his story book.
Why are "20 fatalities in 5 years permanent inkblots"? Were they all his fault? If so in what way?
By the same token you may well want to consider why you chose to introduce capitals in your original post. It is a game of opinions – you seem to find it incredibly difficult to accept that some people may have a different opinion to your own.
Unfortunately, I am constantly reminded of this advert:-
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Gingerobsessor,
As Sascha Stappaerts whispered in Eastern Warrior’s ear – ‘time to take a big pull owd lad’
Where do you find the time to compose all these posts? Run baby run
Your insistence on serial scatter-gun posting here, there and everywhere risks alienating those not already alienated by your infatuation with and monotonous repetition of all things odds/chance/percentage: we got the message long ago, and I for one got the message long before your epiphanic manifestation on TRF and ensuing zealous mission to convert it into the Gingerforum
You recently informed us that you’d been banned from other forums. News which came as a surprise to me as you are not – to your credit – prone to virtual-violent, invective-laden prose; but following your recent reams – circa posts 10950 to 11095 – I can now understand why
And I write those somewhat harsh words as one -as you know – who largely agrees with and admires your approach to betting
Best friends are there to warn you of halitosis…aren’t they? Others retract, pinch their noses and run…don’t they?
As for this thread, I’m sure the OP KenH’s intentions were well-meant and no criticism of him is intended; but there is a Memorials section on this forum where those who choose to do so can leave respectful epitaphs safe in the knowledge they won’t be hijacked and sullied by a mass of tangential and unedifying bollocks which demeans both the poor, once-noble horse and the well-intentioned, saddened OP
my initial post was to recall the great Golden Cygnet and hope that Darlan will be as fondly remembered in 35 years time.
I very much doubt that.
In their novice year Darlan was beaten in the Supreme Novices whilst Golden Cygnet won the same race by fifteen lengths. There’s also a world of difference between beating the likes of Raya Star and mixing with Rock On Ruby in your first season out of novice company and cantering all over Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon whilst still a novice!
By any definition of form, Golden Cygnet really was ‘the one that got away’.
Mike
My point had nothing to do with form. It was based on sentiment, and a hope, in the grip of sadness, that Darlan’s enduring memorial long exceeds his racecourse exploits.
Blimey, all this talk of form, you’re beginning to read like Gingertipster. Not related perchance?
A failing of mine is to look at what people say about others and examine how I’d feel given the situation they are in – considering the evidence/lack of evidence against the person in question; whether the accuser/defendent is a TRFer or not. Just as I’ve defended "racing" against the "game is bent" brigade. I do so knowing sometimes it does not make me popular. My sole intention was to defend Tony McCoy at a distressing time for him. However, I’ve recieved criticism from people who’s opinions I totally respect and are normally fair and/or neutral. They’ve convinced me I have over-stepped the mark in this Darlan thread.
Apologies to anyone offended by my part in this debacle, including Ivanjica, Ghost and Darlan. Hope what has happened does not (in the words of Ghost) put a permanent inkblot against my name and TRFers can look at my future posts without judging me on this thread.
I’ve taken a couple of blood/sugar level tests this morning and unusually both are low. So may be (only may be) that has affected my mood in the past few days. No excuse, should’ve tested earlier.
I have pretty much exhausted my thoughts on "horse racing", so you’ll be glad to know I’ll be giving this side of the forum a miss for a while.
Once again, Sorry.
Value Is Everything
And that’s saying something! You really have not got a clue "Ghost".
, you chose to castigate Tony McCoy’s record and only Tony McCoy! As if his record is so much worse than any other jockey! That he must be somehow at fault! Not looking at statistics in a measured way at all.
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