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Something I’ve noticed about you European horseracing followers is you tend to take race margins a lot more literally as an exact measuring gauge between different horses.
In Australia we don’t do this as much, maybe due to races being run a lot differently here. Brings pace (or lack of), jockey tactics, and luck more into the equation, which means 2-3-4-5 length turnarounds are sometimes normal between horses depending on how races were run and/or what luck each horse got in the running.
I personally think SYT is the best 10F horse in the world and just got beat by shocking race tactics and a poor ride at Ascot. I also suspect Rewilding is a bit better than some of you are crediting him for. I’ve never thought Epsom to be a course that ran clear cut form results anyway, as some horses handle it better than others and some just don’t handle the place at all.
And if what you guys say about Workforce’s best distance being 12F then it was a pretty damn good run for him to push SYT so hard over 10F.
You’ve got to understand SYT is probably the best middle distance horse Australia has had for maybe 9 years since the great Northerly (who claimed the UK horse Grandera’s scalp amongst his many fine conquers). However having said that he’s not (in my opinion at least) what I would consider an all time great horse in the mould of a Kingston Town (or your equivalent Dancing Brave) he isn’t too far off those great horses but he’s not at their level either.
Obviously it’s hard to rate different horses unless they race against each other but he’s proven he’s world class now and to me that’s just a great thing to see.
Would love to see him come back and win another Cox Plate I think Moonee Valley would go off we’ll just have to wait and see what Coolmore decide to do with him.
AIC
In my opinion, SYT is a better horse than Norhterly as he shows his power in various condition, although Northerly beat Grandera in Cox Plate, this Godolphin’s horse always a nervous runner, no matter in Aus or in HK, and not suit with short straight and sharp track. However, I take your point that Kingston Town is All Time Great in Aus as his consistency.
I would be a bit more prudent about what reflect from SYT’s Eclipse win for Aus/NZ middle distance horse. He is a truly special animal in Down Unders, and recall my memory of Vengeance Of Rain, as the latter Sheema Classic win. This can reflect they are very very good horse in their own right, but not equivalent that the standard of middle distance races are the same class as Euro, as Cape Of Good Hope’s win in Aus several years before doesn’t mean the Euro Sprinter is up to Aus standard.
No there isn’t any hope of him Running in The Melbourne Cup as it is a handicap and he would get 60+ kg.It also goes to prove that Timeform ratings are flawed and biased towards European horses.Workforce would most likely have finished 2nd to SYT in the Cox Plate with Sri Putra about 4th or 5th. SYT got about 126 for the Cox Plate,134 for the Eclipse,you see they are basing the rating on Workforce. No one can tell me if the result was the same as yesterday in last years cox plate that SYT would have only gotten 126!
i couldnt agree any more, rain hail, shine, dry, soft, heavy track…track conditions no excuse for workforce, actually i wish it was a heavy track, margin would have been greater.
I followed his career down under and yes, SYT goes on any ground. But most people think Workforce is better with cut in the ground, and people question whether or not SYT can stay 1m4f so a wet track brings that stamina query into play as well.
Personally I’m not sure WF would necessarily improve on a wet track. His Arc win wasn’t that impressive and I think he ran a very similar race in the Derby. For his well-being I’m sure juice in the ground would be better but he acts on good ground perfectly well.I think SYT can probably stay 1m4f but it’s unsettling that Aidan O’Brien called him a horse who "gets a mile and a quarter" and didn’t mention 1m4f races like the Arc and King George when quickly listing possible targets for the horse. Zarkava brings up a good point regarding his programming.
I disagree that the Prince of Wales’ makes no sense. Rewilding severely underrated; when he did get going late in the Derby (funny track and trouble getting clear running) he was matching or marginally gaining on WF (who was pushed out). He then ran huge on the clock in the Leger lead-up and destroyed the decent Redwood in Dubai. He needs to be fresh and that excuse accounts for his bad runs.Thank you for that. Wonderful. A Australian friend of mine was always telling me about ‘Might and Power’ but not sure he ever mention Vo Rogue. I’ll forward him the link. Thanks again.
Presto
I think SYT can act in mile rather than 12F. AUS horses always have natural speed rather stamina!!!
Presto
I think SYT can act in mile rather than 12F. AUS horses always have natural speed rather stamina!!!
Well SYT’s stamina wasnt too bad yesterday!!!! Go educate yourself about racing before making stupid comments it was 10f yesterday and the horse was going best on the line!
Presto
I think SYT can act in mile rather than 12F. AUS horses always have natural speed rather stamina!!!
Well SYT’s stamina wasnt too bad yesterday!!!! Go educate yourself about racing before making stupid comments it was 10f yesterday and the horse was going best on the line!
I NEVER say SYT cannot stay in 10F. My opinion is his speed side not yet exposed and will handle well as Aidan says.
Furthermore, the pace of yesterday tend to be normal rather than hot, which may not fully test the stamina of the runners. Winning 10F is not equal to stay 12F. Grandera won with powering finish in POW 2001, but ran very flat in KGVI!!!
Well your basis for your post seemed to be Australian horses are known for speed rather than stamina.The aussie middle distance horse or stayer has never raced in England, So you Think would be the first ex-aus horse to do so and he fared quite well! Many reasons,firstly the prizemoney is so good,Europe is a long long way to travel,and for inferior prizemoney,Australia concentrates more on racing rather then breeding hence there are a lot more horses gelded there;so no need to get a name for breeding duties.Australia breeds more sprinters because the races are well catered for there and it gives the owners a chance to get a timely return on their investment rather than waiting for a 4yo,they can get huge prizemoney and sales related bonus schemes for 2yo racing.Having said that more middle distance and staying types are being bred now and a Cox Plate and Melbourne Cup have always been hard races to win.Australia has produced some great middle distance and staying horses over the years that were not rated,simply because they were not European.
Well SYT’s stamina wasnt too bad yesterday!!!! Go educate yourself about racing before making stupid comments it was 10f yesterday and the horse was going best on the line!
I have no idea where you and a few others get the idea that horse A has more stamina if he finishes harder (goes better on the line) than horse B. That would mean Zoffany has more stamina than Frankel, Sarafina has more stamina than Workforce and Fame & Glory (last year’s Arc), etc.
Drop So You Think back to a mile and Canford Cliffs hits the line harder and more smoothly than him, does that mean Canford Cliffs has more stamina? No. CC is at his optimum trip while a mile is a bit short of SYT’s best, so SYT would probably lack CC’s speed in the finish. Or you can even take it all the way back to Black Caviar vs. So You Think over 6f in a more exaggerated example. There are other factors like running styles (held-up vs leading) and tactics.
I think SYT will probably stay 1m4f but because of his Melbourne Cup run.
Well your basis for your post seemed to be Australian horses are known for speed rather than stamina.The aussie middle distance horse or stayer has never raced in England, So you Think would be the first ex-aus horse to do so and he fared quite well! Many reasons,firstly the prizemoney is so good,Europe is a long long way to travel,and for inferior prizemoney,Australia concentrates more on racing rather then breeding hence there are a lot more horses gelded there;so no need to get a name for breeding duties.Australia breeds more sprinters because the races are well catered for there and it gives the owners a chance to get a timely return on their investment rather than waiting for a 4yo,they can get huge prizemoney and sales related bonus schemes for 2yo racing.
1) Just a relevant concept, Aus/NZ horse show more tendency in Speed than Stamina as Euro horse vice versa.
2) I take your point in the above, but how about Elvstroem, Victoria Derby and Caulfield Cup winner, 4th in Melbourne Cup, shows his best Northern Hemisphere Form in 1777m Dubai Duty Free and 1850M Prix Isaphan.
3) Large number of sprinters / those excel a mile or less is driven by huge demand in HK, Singapore, Macau……
4) Aus runner may think coming to Europe is a trip too far, how about Asia???
I love SYT, but you just go around lying about him. This is @ JG.
The mackinnon was on a dead track mate. I remember derby day very well, the track started off as good in the morning and it rained all day. By the time the derby was run it was about heavy, but when the mackinnon was run it was still dead, tending towards soft I think. Which translated into euro stuff is probably still almost classed as good.
I love SYT, but you just go around lying about him. This is @ JG.
The mackinnon was on a dead track mate. I remember derby day very well, the track started off as good in the morning and it rained all day. By the time the derby was run it was about heavy, but when the mackinnon was run it was still dead, tending towards soft I think. Which translated into euro stuff is probably still almost classed as good.
Bullsh*t ! Get your facts straight!!! It was rated slow for the Mackinnon,check it out on the stats!!!!!Rain before the race and during it was downgraded shortly after!!! So dont call me a liar when you were to lazy to even check out the rating,simple go to ‘punters paradise’ and check out SYT and you will see!!!!
@jgreen: I rarely make comments about other posters but I really think you need to wind your antagonistic neck in, mate ! I know most Aussies have a chip on their shoulder and don’t give a xxxx about other peoples’ opinions but you take the biscuit.
You probably also think that "Underbelly" is a work of art and contains superior acting and scriptwriting abilities than "The Sopranos"
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Strange ride from Moore, pretty much exactly like the one he gave So You Think at Ascot. Disappointed to say the least.
@ JG. For a minute I thought some facts were gonna trump my memory, but then you said check punters paradise – which just happens to be the site I checked (to verify my memory) before I posted
http://puntersparadise.com.au/horses/So … ink_50127/
There’s the link for anyone who is interested, click on form to see it, mackinnon is his 2nd most recent race. I don’t usually quote the track ratings from it becos it can be wrong on occasion, but JG man c’mon – at least learn to read. On punters paradise it clearly says the mackinnon was a dead track.
Incidentally as a SYT fan who has backed him in every race so far I must say i’m unconvinced he’ll stay a strong 12F. At ascot he got done in a strongly run 10F race, although I do believe there were legit excuses. However, i’m not sure those excuses were enough to allow him to run out 12F, but I guess only time will (may) tell, although I wouldn’t be surprised if he avoided 12F races altogether.
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