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“Liverpool winning the quadruple”
If that happens Pinhead will return to Earth with no inhibitions.
BUY THE SUN
Constitution Hill certainly has an aura of Frankel about him … powerful traveler, cumulative winning distances, push-button acceleration, seemingly boundless energy and does three-quarter speed when everything else is at full tilt.
The one supreme virtue that CH has over hot Frankel is that he’s naturally super-cool which helps him conserve energy pre-race.
Also, being of medium size but with a strong, compact build in conjunction with his running style and intrepid jumping, he appears to have a low centre of gravity.All in all, Constitution Hill looks and performs like the ultimate hurdler.
Plenty of scorn but, while the likes of me and CAS have done something we never do – backed a horse at 3/1 for a race 12 months hence, I can’t see any of the TRF cynics aggressively laying CH at Betfair.
Come on ham et al, start visibly pushing the pink button – if you dare!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Can you come up with other horses?”
Hmm, how about Thistlecrack? Won 4 races on the bounce as a novice chaser, the last of which was a facile King George win. Started the Cotswold 4/7F, the highest rated in the field and rated 5lb higher than the battle hardened Many Clouds who was 8-1 joint 3rd fav. The winning margin was only a head, and the Aintree warrior killed himself doing it, but he broke Thistlecrack on the Cheltenham hill and the Tizzard horse never won another race.
Thistlecrack was an eight year old when a novice chaser, Green’.
Never in the same league.Value Is EverythingI’d add Hawk Wing and Master Minded as horses who looked virtually invincible after their most impressive victories, but who weren’t quite as good as these suggested.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m hugely excited by Constitution Hill and want him to be a superstar, but I won’t be calling him one just yet.
Not long since Samcro was the Second Coming; also aimed at the Punchestown Champion Hurdle…..
“Thistlecrack was an eight year old when a novice chaser, Green’.
Never in the same league.”Righto how about Goshen? Won a juvenile hurdle at Sandown by a distance more than Constitution Hill beat Jetoile. Got his legs in a knot attempting to be the most fandabbydozy Triumph winner evah and to date has not won a G1 (only a year older than Constitution Hill now). At least CH has won a grade one I guess.
Or the second second coming – Envoi Allen. Won his P2P by 10 lengths and sold for more than 3 times the price of Constitution Hill. Unbeaten in 11 rules starts including six grade 1s, two of which were classy Cheltenham festival victories. Then fell over then his leg fell off then his larynx fell off. Although he has added an open grade 1 now. Of sorts.
Second Coming according to some maybe, but not all.
So many in racing who not only fall for hype, but think everyone else does too.
There are people on this thread who might well be more excited about Constitution Hill than any hurdler they’ve seen in 20 years.
And with good reason.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“There are people on this thread who might well be more excited about Constitution Hill than any hurdler they’ve seen in 20 years.
And with good reason.”
100% correct, Ian. But, I still want him to mature and take the next step when running outside of novice company. If he stays permanently over hurdles, he’ll definitely have the chance to match the unbeaten streaks of Honeysuckle and Big Bucks. Something, I’d like to see happening in the next few years.
“Don’t get me wrong, I’m hugely excited by Constitution Hill and want him to be a superstar, but I won’t be calling him one just yet.””
“There are people on this thread who might well be more excited about Constitution Hill than any hurdler they’ve seen in 20 years.”
I’m on board with all that.
If the horse can repeat the dose in the autumn I’ll be even more excited. Nevertheless, I’d be concerned about him going wrong sometime via an injury incurred either on the track or at home, or whatever else can go amiss. Plus, he could just lose his form. I guess the 3/1 factors in all that. But I’m pretty much risk-averse nowadays so ante-post betting doesn’t work for me most of the time.
ID & CAS have taken the carpet and good luck to them. They should be grateful that I’m not joining them in this piece of speculation. I tend to bet with a mixture of confidence, suspicion, and despair, the last two of which tend to rub off on others to their mild irritation.
“Most people who follow racing are always looking for a new superstar. I thought Constitution Hill’s performance at Cheltenham was stunning, and he could easily go on to become a great. I really hope he does.
But I can well understand how Honeysuckle’s connections might feel a bit miffed that people are so quick to write her off in comparison. She’s delivered the goods time and again, and not hidden away in mares’ races. While this may have not been a vintage era for hurdling, she’s been beating rivals of a similar standard to those that the revered Istabraq was beating.
A lot of this goes back to the oft-debated subject of how we define greatness. For me durability and consistency are part of the equation, and this is why I do not yet think Constitution Hill can be mentioned in the same breath as Honeysuckle”.
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Not looking for a superstar at all, just like to recognise one when they come along, Marlingford.
When comparing a mare with a colt or gelding I do think it’s fairer to add the mare’s allowance to her official rating. That said, seven pounds is imo generous but may be that’s for another thread.
If adding the 7 lb allowance to her current 165 Timeform rating (165 + 7 = 172) Honeysuckle is not a poor Champion Hurdler. If my memory is correct 172 means Honeysuckle (last year) comes out the best Champion Hurdler since Faugheen… But neither can 172 be rated an outstanding hurdler. Honeysuckle is undoubtedly an admirable mare with many qualities which yes include durability and consistency. Although she was quite a bit below her best form in winning this year’s race. So not quite the consistency of late. Could say lucky a better rated horse was not in the field to beat her. The mare has some fine attributes but people should not get too carried away with a winning run; it is often due to the fact the horse is in an easier era so can run below form and still win. Racing enthusiasts can sometimes increase the standing he / she gives a horse just because it hasn’t faced as good opposition as one of equal or greater ability who has got beaten by a better horse..
But we are talking here of whether or not she can beat Constitution Hill. Obviously if CH runs below form she can win, but any horse can do that depending on how far below form the Henderson horse is.
You can argue that Honeysuckle’s durability and consistency makes her better than Constitution Hill. But that is a bit confusing because it means the two horses can both run to form and yet your “better” horse (Honeysuckle) can be beaten by the horse with the “best” form (Constitution Hill).
Istabraq beat the likes of Hors La Loi III, Limestone Lad and French Holly.
Has Honeysuckle beaten horses of that quality?Not sure what De Bromhead is moaning at tbh.
People are talking about this year’s Cheltenham. Do people really need to effectively include every race Honeysuckle has run in when talking about this year’s Cheltenham?
Surely Constitution Hill’s 177 performance deserves more plaudits than Honeysuckle’s around a 167 (and that’s adding the 7 lb)? Especially when it is only Constitution Hill’s third run under rules and
Honeysuckle ran quite a bit below her best.
May be Henry is frustrated because he can see his horse’s run coming to an end.Value Is EverythingWhen Goshen made that bad mistake and unseated at the last in the Triumph he came back with an injury, Green’. Most horses don’t come back as good after an injury.
If Constitution Hill or Honeysuckle were to get injured they may not come back as good.
Besides, Goshen was not talked about in the same way as Constitution Hill.
Goshen’s Triumph rated more than a stone worse than CH’s Supreme.Not that anything Envoi Allen did impressed me like Constitution Hill did, but…
If amy horse – Honeysuckle included – changes stables, falls, pulls up lame and has wind surgery they’re highly unlikely to come back as good.Value Is EverythingOnce again, the same boring question: We like talking about weights and allowances, but what do we know about Honeysuckle and Constitution Hill? How tall are they, how much do they weigh and what would be the maximum weight either one of them could carry?
I’m quite sure they might be a bit different, maybe not as much as a man and a female athlete, but still different. CH could be more muscular, even though he is a gelding and she might be more fragile. We really don’t know if she should get no allowance at all or maybe even a couple of extra pounds. Until we have no real idea about their constitution and weights, the entire allowance discussion could be to no avail.
“I still want him to mature and take the next step when running outside of novice company”.
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“Next step” to what, Ruby?
Novice hurdle races don’t always have winners of lesser ability.Constitution Hill has already produced a Timeform rating that not many established hurdlers have ever beaten.
Value Is EverythingThanks for that reply Ginger, lots of interesting views as always, even if I don’t agree on all points.
On the Istabraq comparison, we need to keep in mind that Theatreworld beat very similar groups of horses, and I don’t think anyone would claim he was a superstar. To answer your question though, I think the likes of Sharjah and Epatante are broadly comparable to the horses that Istabraq beat.
I appreciate there’s a paradox where I would be more comfortable calling a horse that has shown consistent very high class form a “great”, but not a horse who has shown one flash of brilliance that is arguably better than any of the other horse’s form. That’s just my personal preference though, and there’s not really a “right” answer on this point.
If and when Constitution Hill repeats the performance in open company I will be more on board with seeing him as a great. I don’t think of poor old Golden Cygnet as a great either, though no doubt I would have done had fate been kinder.
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