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“To many folk going way ott regards constitution Hill.”
It’s called having a strong opinion – I’d rather read strong opinions than read people endlessly sitting on the fence because they’re terrified of ever being wrong.
“I remember harbinger winning the king George by 15 lengths. Was he the best thing since sliced bread. Also celtic swing in the racing post trophy.”
I find this kind of “analysis” astonishing. It depends on what you beat. Obviously. I’ve seen horses win sellers by 30 lengths, but I didn’t think it made them stars. Celtic Swing won the Racing Post Trophy on Soft ground – mud exaggerates winning distances – but on Good ground you have to sit up and take notice.
If we were only allowed to get excited about horses retrospectively it would be a very boring game and tbh I feel sorry for anyone who views the game that way.
I think this thread has had some brilliant proclamations, notably from people who, like myself, rarely post such things.
Plenty of “we all thought” stuff too, err, no, some of us are very selective about making bold predictions as we have seen too many false dawns over the years.
But I think Constitution Hill is the best Supreme winner since….
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Cannot see Mullins running Facile Vega in next year’s Champion Hurdle, no matter what he does. He has Sir Gerhard for the race anyway.
“Constitution Hill was by a country mile the best horse who ran at Cheltenham last week.”
Agree he is already absolutely top drawer – but I would say he is the best horse who completed the course. Galopin Des Champs was putting up a similarly brilliant (if not quite as good) performance before his mishap at the last.
That’s interesting because while, very rarely for me, I think 3/1 Constitution Hill for the 2023 Champion Hurdle is actually fair as IMO he only had to show up (anyone want to go on Betfair and offer bigger?) I think 4/1 Galopin Des Champs for the 2023 Cheltenham Gold Cup is a joke.
Bob Olinger clearly isn’t a natural chaser and the other two were running for place money.
Plus A Plus Tard was far more impressive on Friday than Honeysuckle was on Tuesday – he’s beaten better horses by further.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Agree ID. I have backed Constitution Hill for the Champion Hurdle, which is unusual for me to back something at a relatively short price so far out. But I genuinely believe he could be long odds on.
I have not backed GDC for anything, for two reasons. Firstly, no one knows what race he is going to be in. Mullins even mused on running him in the Champion Chase. My guess is he will run in the Gold Cup, if for no other reason that Mullins looks like he has nothing else for it, whereas he has Energumene and Allaho for the other Grade 1s.
Secondly, I am concerned about his jumping technique. He jumped the first two or three fences like he was in a puissance. He also stood miles off one of the fences in the back straight (he did something similar at Leopardstown). His mishap at the last was unfortunate but not altogether surprising. His flashy, flamboyant style makes him vulnerable. I would really like to see him learn and start jumping more economically. Until he does, I am reluctant to back him.
That said, he clearly has a serious engine. De Bromhead was almost shell shocked at what he had done to Bob Olinger. I agree Bob is not a natural chaser – but I thought he was running much his best race over fences last week until a mistake at the top of the hill. Up until then, he was trading around 1.75 in running on Betfair.
As for the other two runners, they clearly made little attempt to get involved and had a private race for third (what turned out to be second). Having said that, they are not bad horses and a tired Bob Olinger still beat them by 40 lengths!
Anybody can have strong opinions. I’ve no problem with that. The point I was making re harbinger was he won on very quick groundcwhich can also exaggerate wins. Feel free to get excited but I’m in the wait and see camp as it could be a brilliant champion hurdle next year and I just can’t see CH being odds on. Time will tell of course but there’s plenty of water etc before next march. Could be run on a bog and those with cracking form on good ground could paddle.
GDC to me was every bit as good as Ch and he could be the best chaser for many a year. Hdb was visibly shocked he left bo out with the washing. All about opinions so crack on.The handicapper clearly agrees with the ‘best novice since Golden Cygnet’ line, as he’s put CH on a mark of 170, which is 5lbs higher than Honeysuckle.
He’s even raised Jonbon by 2lbs to 147 for having the temerity to jump the last hurdle before CH crossed the line.
Would be fascinating to see that mark tested in one of the valuable 2M handicap hurdles next season, but of course that won’t happen.
I’d love to see Jonbon in the Greatwood off 147. Ridden with a bit more restraint than last week, he’d be hard to beat off that mark.
This really is a cracking thread.
Like CAS, ante post betting – especially at single-figure odds – is something I rarely do.
But if I am going to mouth off on Internet forums about this horse I need to put some cash where my big gob is, so I took some 3/1.
Respect what Mickey just wrote – and love his strong GDC opinion, even if I don’t necessarily agree.
What Gladiateur wrote much earlier is valid too – I wasn’t raving about CH in this way after the Tolworth so yes in that sense he needs to do what he did last week a second time.
And Jonbon off 147 in a handicap would be fascinating.
For what Alan writes is gold – world of difference between obtaining an OR in a novice hurdle and being competitive off it in a big handicap.
Exciting times, everyone.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Yep just backed Constition Hill at 5/2 on 888, like Ian said it’s a great thread this, lots of strong opinions on both sides of the fence from very knowledgeable people, terrific reading!
Constitution Hill is rated 177p by Timeform.
Timeform’s best ever novice hurdler.
Adding Honeysuckle’s 7 lb mares allowance to her rating, 165 + 7 = 172.
Some don’t realise Constitution Hill is already the best hurdler of 2022 and by some way..
The “p” means there’s likely more improvement to come.
How much could the Henderson horse improve?
Not unusual for a “p” horse to improve 6 lbs from first to second season…
Especially with lightly raced types – Constitution Hill has after all only had three runs in his life.
Constitution Hill not only has a great chance of being Champion Hurdler of 2023…
He has an excellent chance of being to hurdling what Frankel is to the Flat and Arkle is to Chasing.
Frankel is Timeform’s best ever Flat horse.
Arkle is Timeform’s best ever Chaser.
Night Nurse is Timeform’s best ever hurdler rated at 182.
Constitution Hill only needs 6 lbs improvement to become Timeform’s best ever hurdler…Value Is EverythingExcept he wont be… giving him something similar to what appreciate it was given last season would be fine, or slightly better, but already rating him in the 170s really is comical, the horse may very well end up being “what frankel is to the flat” but he absolutely should not be spoken about it as if its even remotely possible yet.
I find it absolutely hilarious to be comparing him to these greats and this thread has about an 80% chance of being a comedy skit in about 12 months time
“Except he wont be… giving him something similar to what appreciate it was given last season would be fine, or slightly better, but already rating him in the 170s really is comical, the horse may very well end up being “what frankel is to the flat” but he absolutely should not be spoken about it as if its even remotely possible yet.
I find it absolutely hilarious to be comparing him to these greats and this thread has about an 80% chance of being a comedy skit in about 12 months time”
Couldn’t disagree more, but I think we’ve all laid our cards on the table now anything more would probably just result in us going round in circles for the next 12 months lol.
It seems plenty of us Constitution Hill fans have put our money where our mouths are and backed him ante post for the Champion Hurdle next year, out of curiosity have any of our Honeysuckle fans backed her for the 3-timer?
May be you don’t understand the significance of time, ham.
If this time performance (both overall time and sectionals) was put up in a Champion Hurdle; would that make it a better performance?
Value Is EverythingMickeyip,
Can you come up with other horses?Celtic Swing and Harbinger are easy targets.
Horses need particular conditions to produce their bests. Amongst other “conditions”, Celtic Swing put up his best on soft ground and never had that surface again.
Harbinger was injured after his King George and never raced again. So had no chance of reproducing his best.
Their ratings might be a little out – only “might” and only a “little”.
Value Is Everything
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