- This topic has 3,121 replies, 103 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 5 days ago by
.
- Posts
One thing nobody knows is how any of the top novices will develop into next season. The ratings given are timeforms opinion on each run. While Bob olivier ran poorly Johnson etc didn’t. Surely one can never say for sure who ran up to scratch due to so many factors including the ground. When Henry de bromhead said he was stunned at gbc rushing away from Bob olinger I’ll take his view rather than loads of others.
We all take our own view on races and the final furlong podcast we’re purring about gdc. If Bob olinger ran close to form that was a mighty performance.
As we’ve said wide margin winners tend to get the pulses racing but invariably can be deceptive.
Snowfall in the oaks was devastating and could be she ran the best race by far of her career there but didn’t go on from there.
Many things can stop horses going on and the sport is littered in what might have been. I can go back to diesis for Henry Cecil. Fantastic 2 year old who looked set to be a top top horse but never quite did it. Let’s enjoy all the great performances but that’s what they were. They don’t tell what will happen in a years time.
The champion chase seems to carry more kudos than the champion hurdle so if shiskin doesn’t get back to the top will Henderson go chasing with CH. God knows what Willie mullins will do.Talking of rating wide margin winners, I’m pretty sure Hawk Wing never achieved again the figure he managed at Newbury when winning The Lockinge (I think?) by 11 lengths. Whichever runner you rated the race through gave you a ridiculously high number, well above Frankel and Sea Bird. Crazy.
Some of the ratings make no sense; Timeform tweeted the top 10 novice hurdlers. They had Ruling on 167, and Danoli even higher, yet no Royal Gait or Alderbrook who actually managed to win the Champion hurdle as novices. Absolute garbage…..
As for the Hawk Wing Lockinge win, that’s the very definition of ‘outlier’ – and can/should be ignored.
I don’t get Hawk wing vibes from CH. I never understood the hype around Hawk Wing. Only 5 wins from 12, not even the best miler of his generation yet pundits wet themselves over him. Yes he won the Lockinge well but it was a garbage renewal. He wasn’t a patch on Rock of Gibraltar. George Washington was another horse that was similarly hyped up way more than he deserved.
What was last in the Supreme? Would obviously have left Mill Reef trailing.
BUY THE SUN
Hawk Wing would’ve slaughtered Rock Of Gibraltar if he’d been kept to a mile. He only lost the Guineas because he was drawn on the wrong side of the track.
Only 51 weeks to go
Honeysuckle’s CV is pretty impressive. Performance is one thing but longevity is counts for more imo
Look at Man Utd can beat Southampton 9-0 but it’s counts for little at the end of the season when they won’t make top 4
That said horses have a limited time span at the top of their game and Consitution Hill as the younger up coming new kid on the block will carry my money in 11 months and 3 weeks timeGaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
“Some of the ratings make no sense; Timeform tweeted the top 10 novice hurdlers. They had Ruling on 167, and Danoli even higher, yet no Royal Gait or Alderbrook who actually managed to win the Champion hurdle as novices. Absolute garbage”…..
———————————————–
Would be garbage if true, Andy. Alderbrook was much better than that.
Timeform actually rated Alderbrook 174 for his 5 lengths Champion Hurdle victory over Large Action.
Danoli got 172, not for his win in the Sun Alliance Novice at Cheltenham, but in open company in the Aintree Hurdle. Beating Mole Board by 8 lengths. The best hurdle performance of the 92/93 season.
Royal Gait 164 for his 1/2 length victory over Oh So Risky with just a short head back to Ruling in the latter’s second Champion Hurdle run.
Ruling’s 167 was for his third in the Champion of 1991 on just his third run over hurdles. At 50/1 all but catching Nomadic Way for second. Can’t see any reason to consider the runner-up did not give his running. Winner Morley Street wasn’t at his best after idling badly on the run-in. Ruling went very much the wrong way temperamentally in his second season. No form to speak of before starting 20/1 in the 1992 Champion. However, first time blinkers brought about a return to his novice form, well almost. This time achieving 163, a pretty good rating considering he had a couple of very valid excuses. Played up in the prelims (coltish) and the slower run race was all against him. Again taking third spot. Soon after the Champion, Ruling was quite badly injured so unfortunately we did not have the opportunity of seeing if he could get back to that 167.
Ratings are only a part of the puzzle that is chance. A higher rating does not mean a horse necessarily has a better chance than one at a lower rating. Lot more to consider. If ratings were given for how many times they run to form then Ruling would obviously not be so well rated, but ratings are not given for consistency. Ratings are about how good each horse has been shown to be given ideal conditions.
There are always going to be some horses who rarely show their best because they need certain conditions or are temperamentally suspect. Or – even fewer times showing their best – like Ruling… both.
In this respect Marlingford is right. Ruling should not be seen as a “better” horse than one with a better temperament and consistency who’s rated a bit less than he is.
Value Is Everythinghttps://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/timeform-the-great-essays-golden-cygnet/199536
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Thanks, Nathan – a cracking read IMO.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I had 5 good mates when I was at Uni in Dublin in the late 70s; we used to skive off lectures and go racing. So I was at Punchestown the day Golden Cygnet won the Forenoughts Hurdle. The going was really heavy, but he seemed to skate through it.
Great days; a few us are dead now.Is there any need for that, Colin?
I understood what he meant.
I thought it was a poignant posting, one many of us can relate to.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Poignant indeed, great memory befair.
Thinking of you as a ghost sat there writing is a little funny though.
Value Is EverythingConstitution Hill has been awarded a Timeform rating of 177p in the wake of his breathtaking 22-length victory in the Sky Bet Supreme Novices’ Hurdle.
That makes him the highest-ever rated novice hurdler in our 74-year history.
— Timeform (@Timeform) March 15, 2022
The original tweet didn’t have Alderbrook on it; Graham Cunningham questioned it – and they’ve retweeted it, with Alderbrook included.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.