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Let me say first that I’m a huge fan of ballydoyle back to Vincent obrien Robert Sangster and lester. Then of course along comes a very young John magnier. While we all marvel at their operation it had me thinking what are the others not doing. Breeding is an inexact science but there seems to be loads of regally bred horses that aiden doesn’t train that just come to nothing. Aiden is obviously one of the greatest of all time but what’s happened to stoute,varian etc.if it wasn’t for John gosden coolmore would be unopposed. Maybe it’s just due to galileo or maybe coolmore are wiser on the breeding but they certainly are on a different planet than everybody else.
Aiden is obviously one of the greatest of all time but what’s happened to stoute,varian etc.if it wasn’t for John gosden coolmore would be unopposed.
Who is Varian? What has he achieved in order to be mentioned along with Stoute and Gosden?
Was winning group ones with postponed,Belardo and looked like he could be heading to the top but seems to have tailed off recently. Not in the same bracket as stoute but look to be one heading the right way
For me there would be quite a long list of trainers that would be just as successful as Aiden had they been in the lucky position of having the most powerful breeding operating backing them pretty much from day because at the end of the day if you don’t have good horses to train it doesn’t matter how great a trainer you are. Yes breeding is an inexact science but the conveyor belt that is Coolmore means you are that much more likely to get the best horses around to train. The interesting thing will be can Coolmore continue with their dominance once Galileo is retired from covering?????
Personally, I don’t think Aiden has really had to struggle through the ranks of having to train below average/average horses to get to the top of his profession in the same way that the likes of say a Stoute/Gosden/Cecil etc had in their formative days and for that reason I would put him just under the likes of a Vincent O’Brien, Sir Henry Cecil, Sir Michael Stoute & John Gosden – he himself has always stated just how fortunate he has been to be in the position he is in.
At the end of the day are we really trying to say that the likes of a Stoute, Gosden, Varian, Balding, Hannon, Johnston, Fahey & Botti etc wouldn’t be capable of getting the same results as Aiden has had they been in his position?
If only it is just a matter of the raw material. Dubawi is a top stallion but godolphin don’t seem to make many top 3 yos at the moment. Darley has many fine stallions so why aren’t they producing multiple group one winners. What I think makes aiden as possibly the best along with Vincent obrien,sir Henry and noel murless is having to train horses with the lads deciding where they go. His handling of minding last year was amazing to win group ones over a mile 10f,12f then finishing off with the Ascot mile was superb. And of course a 1,2,3 in the arc. It’s not all about the horses.
I find the Ballydoyle dominance somewhat boring but to suggest that others would replicate Aiden’s success is wide of the mark IMO.
He understands the equine psyche in the same way that Henry Cecil did and creates a perfect environment for them to reach the height of their ability and to stay there for as long as is practical.
Coolmore has Demi O’Byrne! Bar Green Monkey, the man is bit of a genius in spotting talent at the sales
Everything that they do, including their website, oozes in class. Granted, some of their in your faces sales and hype is a bit meh,
Don’t see Juddmonte doing that . 
. Look at the lengths that they go to in maintaining not just Ballydoyle Stables but their Breeding stable up the road from that, not to mention their National Hunt Stables . They cut and harvest their own feed and are pretty self contained.For me there would be quite a long list of trainers that would be just as successful as Aiden had they been in the lucky position of having the most powerful breeding operating backing them pretty much from day because at the end of the day if you don’t have good horses to train it doesn’t matter how great a trainer you are. Yes breeding is an inexact science but the conveyor belt that is Coolmore means you are that much more likely to get the best horses around to train. The interesting thing will be can Coolmore continue with their dominance once Galileo is retired from covering?????
Personally, I don’t think Aiden has really had to struggle through the ranks of having to train below average/average horses to get to the top of his profession in the same way that the likes of say a Stoute/Gosden/Cecil etc had in their formative days and for that reason I would put him just under the likes of a Vincent O’Brien, Sir Henry Cecil, Sir Michael Stoute & John Gosden – he himself has always stated just how fortunate he has been to be in the position he is in.
At the end of the day are we really trying to say that the likes of a Stoute, Gosden, Varian, Balding, Hannon, Johnston, Fahey & Botti etc wouldn’t be capable of getting the same results as Aiden has had they been in his position?
Really? Never had to struggle?
Saddlers Well was Leading Sire in 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, (and a number of further subsequent years). Caerleon, a horse once trained by Dr Vincent O’Brien was leading sire in 1988 and 1991. Dr O’Brien retired in or around 1994ish . His last British Classic had been in 1982. His last Irish Classic was 1988.One of his last Group 1s was in 1992. Sangster and Niarchos were with Vincent O’Brien right up to the end.
Looking back at the List of leading Sires from 1990-1996, how many of the stallion’s progeny were classic winners? Guess who were the owners of them? They weren’t Coolmore connected trainers! Sheikh Mohammed and his brother were heavily reliant on Saddler’s Well.
Tabor comes in around 1995ish but was winning big races in the US
O’Brien started flat racing or or around 1993 and was making a name for himself in both codes with National Hunt becoming Champion Trainer in Ireland. Magnier sponsored him with horses like Theatreworld while also sponsoring JJ O’Neill.
John Gosden has been patronized by ALL of the major owners in racing and still is . He gets the odd Coolmore reject, but he also gets Godolpin and Shadwell, Chevely, Juddmonte….. Stoute even at his peak had good owners . Fabre in France had/has them ALL bar maybe Aga Khan , all of them have had quiet years. Actually, for the size of his yard, and being one of the truly talented trainers in Britain,and about only one of three currently in training , Gosden has kinda under achieved.He was a flat trainer long before Aidan, and despite having a lot of exsposure in the US (where he was successful and Juddmonte’s first US trainer) he has rather underachieved in that country since he came back to to the UK
Sure with Sheikh Mo’s horses and not much competition this statement could be said about yer beloved Henry Cecil
“a long list of trainers that would be just as successful as Aiden had they been in the lucky position of having the most powerful breeding operating backing them pretty much from day”
His success did not last long after Sheikh Mo shipped out and that was before the real explosion of Aidan O’Brien / Coolmore circa 2000/2001.
Sheikh Mo was still ticking along nicely when Bin Suroor was champion trainer, now he is not even Godolpin’s main man anymore (that might change with Ferguson out of the way) Bin Suroor , to be fair to him was winning Group 1s all over the world in his pomp.
“Lucky”?
No luck to it! Aidan is on course to exceed everything that Vincent O’Brien achieved, all within a space of 20 years and he is not even 50!Dubawi and the late Cape Cross were /continue to produce European Classic winners! Just , for different owners. Word was the owner of Golden Horn originally considered selling him but could not get a buyer. Looks like Godolphin bought the wrong Gosden horse. It was another Coolmore bred horse that embarrassed O’Brien and the Lads at the Irish Champion Stakes in 2014
Aidan O’Brien was breaking all sorts of training records long before he went to Ballydoyle. That’s why they (inclduing Vincent O’Brien) picked him out.
He isn’t a truly great trainer because he trains for Coolomore, he trains for Coolmore because he’s a truly great trainer.
What I meant by he didn’t have to struggle through the ranks was to simply point out that when he joined Ballydoyle in 1996 (just three short years into his training career) all the tools he needed were already there ready and waiting (i.e. unlike most new trainers that have to cultivate new owners to come join the yard and go through the trial and error of buying horses at the sales to populate said yard).
This is quite clearly borne out by the fact that the very next season he trained his first classic winner and also become champion trainer for the first time – fair play to him as he has taken the opportunity given to him and totally ran all over the place with it rewriting the record books (much like Vincent did) along the way. Although to me it must be a lot easier just adding extensions to an already structually sound house rather than having to build the whole lot yourself from the ground up.
I personally believe that if the likes of say a Stoute, Gosden, Varian, Botti or any other up and coming trainer were given the exact same backing 3 yrs into their own careers that they would have also had the same level of success.
What I meant by he didn’t have to struggle through the ranks was to simply point out that when he joined Ballydoyle in 1996 (just three short years into his training career) all the tools he needed were already there ready and waiting (i.e. unlike most new trainers that have to cultivate new owners to come join the yard and go through the trial and error of buying horses at the sales to populate said yard)
He had done enough in his short training career, as a flat and national hunt trainer to be sent to Ballydoyle . Istrabaq was a star for him. He was winning races left right and center in Ireland in National Hunt and had support from JP. He came highly regarded by Jim Bolger, who people tend to heed when he talks
In 1995, Aidan O’Brien , in his third full season trainer flat horses, and before Ballydoyle won 76 races out of 529 rides in Ireland.
The horses were mostly owned by the wife or the Crowley family, who were mostly National Hunt people. You can count on one had the amount of horses that Magnier sent to him for flat racing. None of them were highly rated. He had no fancy owners like Smurfitt for the flat horses and not many fancy well bred horses of the day, some of them were dual purpose horses. He had a horse was placed in for 2nd at Royal Ascot. He won a few races that would now be listed and Group 3s!
In 1995, the big hitters in Ireland were John Oxx who had Ridgewood Pearl and Dermott Weld. Oxx won 99 races with only 335 races but he had quality and the Aga Khan! Oxx also had Sheikh Mo who was the champion owner in Ireland in 1995. Weld, the regular champion by money and wins in Ireland had 79 wins with 555 rides.Weld had the support of Al Maktoum, Smurfitt and several American owners and of course Moyglare not to mention having Mick Kinane as your jockey. In other words, with weaker arsenal, O’Brien was already dining with the big boys for wins in a season! All while also continuing to win Group 1s and Group 2’s in England and Ireland in the National Hunt and being the Irish Champion in 1995/1996 (and dominating in 1994/1995)
Prior to 1995, O’Brien had already won a handful of Group 3s in the flat.48 wins from 346 flat rides
So,no, it was not handed to him! He went to Balydoyle with an outstanding CV as a horse trainer
This is quite clearly borne out by the fact that the very next season he trained his first classic winner and also become champion trainer for the first time – fair play to him as he has taken the opportunity given to him and totally ran all over the place with it rewriting the record books (much like Vincent did) along the way. Although to me it must be a lot easier just adding extensions to an already structually sound house rather than having to build the whole lot yourself from the ground up.
In 1996 and 1997 he still was training for his other trainers along with Magnier & Co! They weren’t bagging the big British races in either years bar a Coventry and a Racing Post Trophy , so it was not immediate success in Britain.
I personally believe that if the likes of say a Stoute, Gosden, Varian, Botti or any other up and coming trainer were given the exact same backing 3 yrs into their own careers that they would have also had the same level of success.
If my aunt had balls , she would be my uncle.
You forget on major thing. Aidan’s success has remained CONSISTENT and he keeps breaking records, globally. If Aidan fell out with Coolmore tomorrow morning, he would have Godolpin, Aga Khan, Juddmonte, Al Maktoum ringing him up. With his own money and know how in breeding (He bred Qualify an Oaks winner) himself and the wife would probably do a Jim Bolger and breed and train a few of his own
Stoute is more or less finished and has not won a classic since 2010. Cecil went 6 years without a Group 1 and even went a season with winning only 12 races!
As for a start in life ….do some basic research
With Gosden, you are talking complete and utter nonsense!
For a start, he was the son of a trainer, O’Brien only knew about horses because his family didn’t have a tractor and horses were the substitute. Secondly , Gosden had being an Assistant trainer to Vincent O’Brien and Noel Murless. Hardly a burden! He learned from the Very best and was around when they won classics!.Aidan had Jim Bolger, who while an impressive trainer, just ain’t the same. In America, he was an Asssistant to multiple Group 1 trainer, including a Classic winner, Tommy Doyle. He was the Bobby Frankel of turf racing in the West, in his pomp
Gosden, who took out a licence in 1979 was not long getting Juddmonte horses in the US!He was wining Group 1s for them by 1983. He was a MULTIPLE Group 1,2 and 3 winning trainer in the US before his return to the UK, he even won the Breeders Cup Mile in the 1984. Not a bad start, don’t you think, considering he went to the US with next to nothing money wise and despite his dad being a trainer.
By 1982,his third season, he had won 48 races in 244 starts in the US and cracking the million dollar mark, 66 wins from 380 in 1983 making 2.5 million and for the rest of his time in the US until 1989 he was never below 50 wins a season, even making 80 wins in one season, and winning at least 2 million dollars in prize money each year. He did not have to worry about the costs of running his own stable as it was all done at the track. He was not coming back to Britain as some no body! I think he was specifically encouraged to come back to Britain by Sheikh Mohammed!!!
His second season , and really, his first full season bedded in, he won over 80 wins and for the next couple of years that figure remained the same with an outstanding strike rate over over 22 %. Gosden never saw his win count go under 50 wins a season / year in all that time and was rarely under the 1 million quid mark
By 1992 he was a double Group 1 winner, in 1993 he won the Irish St Leger, an Irish Classic and a few other European Group 1 races and well over 100 races.He was a big Royal Ascot winner by 1994. He won the Epsom Derby in 1997.
In 1989, his first season in the UK , Gosden counted on Sheikh Mohammed
, during his glorious maroon and white days as his main supporter . He also enjoyed patronage of Charles St George and Juddmonte. By 1990, Hamadan Al Maktoum was also patronizing him.He even had Sangster by his third year.So, as for Gosden, while he might not have got the horses that Cecil got from the Sheikh, it was hardly a poor start or a lack of opportunities !!!! Gosden has top owners from Day 1 in the UK
As for Varian, how many horses does he have in training? Isn’t he suppose to have a huge team? Hardly in a dump of a stable either.His first season was 2011. Bear in mind, that in Ireland, for over 30 years all someone like Aidan has to worry about is whether Oxx, Weld or Bolger had better horses. In Britain there are more trainers . Varian was a Group 1 winning trainer in his very first season! He won 2 more Group 1s in 2012 and a classic in 2014, his fourth season. He never saw a year that he won less than 50 races so far. He is not struggling! 2015 was his only season without a Group 1 win so far. Even in his first season as a trainer he had the usual Arab owners who are not short for case. Al Maktoum brothers. Today, he has patronage from others like Chevely and even Paul Smith who has access to all of them Coolmore sires
Botti? You joking right? Oh dear oh dear.
There have been a few trainers who had horses transferred to them after Botti , and they were less than complimentary about the state that the said horses were received . Wouldn’t have a donkey with him. Moreover, he comes from a leading racing family in Italy, thus he has connections and money. Training since 2006, those Italian connections were shrewed enough to get him Excelebration by his fourth season in training.He won a Group 3 in his first season in training .His first Group 1 in his third season (in the US no less) Few of the big name breeders have gone near him.
Stoute is the only one that you mentioned that had zero connection to racing before he became a trainer, so his rise is far more impressive. But when he did rise, it was not always consistent. Throughout his career , he has had almost every major owner -breeder back him and he has had no problems fending off O’Brien over the years
Face it, if O’Brien was English ye would be fawning over him . Begrudgery, sad
So Aiden was supported by JP (one of if not the biggest NH hunt owners going) in his early days before he joined Coolmore (at that time one of the best breeding operation and since then the best period) and has consistently bagged top honours whilst getting the choice of the best Coolmore stock available and yet you believe that no other trainer given that set of circumstances would be as successful……ok.
If Aiden were to stop training for Coolmore (will never happen) he knows he would be in for a culture shock because whilst many of the top owners would indeed be looking to team up with him he would not have that exclusive access to the best stock that he enjoys now as those owners have historically spread their horses between various trainers and would continue to do so – oh and good luck if you think Sheikh Mo would have any involvement whatsoever with him after his own historical spats with Coolmore. He has absolutely no objectivity when it comes to them at all – a true case of cutting off your nose to spite your face if you will.
Oh and please don’t make this an English against Irish thing as there is no place for that on this forum and if I had a thinner skin I would probably take offense to you leaping to that conclusion by insinuating that about me. I have total respect for all that Aiden has achieved in his career to date (long may it continue) but I just believe that other trainers are equally capable a replicating what he has done had they been given the same opportunity he was.
I fully appreciate from your detailed posts that you don’t share the same view on this matter and I will simply leave it there.
I think you have pretty much summed it up LD73. The success is a combination of parts, and giving a trainer the freedom to train should not be underestimated. That not only includes the lack of logistical/financial headaches, but also the simplicity of targets. Not to have to wreck your head to get the best from a moderate horse, in order to keep the owner who also has the good horse (or might buy one) happy is a huge advantage. There have been some instances where a disappointment may have led to other powerful owners reducing the number of 2yo allocated, or moving altogether. Ballydoyle is free from that constraint, which also gives confidence to not play safe (as Ryan Moore said, see things in a different way). That is easier to do if there are no consequences. I don’t believe that O’Brien is the only trainer capable of doing that, given the same circumstances. What Coolmore particularly get from him is that he plays the game as few can. To repeatedly stand in front of the camera and spew the marketing spiel with a straight face (and not slip up in private either) is something few could stomach. It’s the perfect match. As for his winning all around him in the NH world, being champion NH trainer in those days was not quite what it would be now, and his wife did it before him. One could argue that he took over the Crowley operation in full flight.
FWIW, I know plenty of good judges who regard the young AOB’s training of Life Of A Lord to be the greatest masterpiece in the last 30 years of Irish racing. The guy’s good.
So Aiden was supported by JP (one of if not the biggest NH hunt owners going) in his early days
Mother of god, will you do some basic research.
JP McManus was not the big hitter, as an owner, in the early 1990’s that he became in the 2000’s, when O’Brien wound up his NH work (stayed on till Istrabraq until 2001. You have to take into account what a horrible country Ireland was, economically in the 1980’s while Britain was doing alright under Thatcher (well, the rich people anyway)
This is the number of wins and rides JP’s horses had in Britain , where it really matters : 88/90 3 wins/14 rides, 89/90 0 wins/16 rides, 1990/1991 5 wins/13 rides, 1991/1992 2 wins/7 rides, 1992/1993 1 win / 19 rides, 1992/1993 1 win/19 rides, 1993/1994 2 wins 7 rides, 1994/1995 3 wins/12 rides, 1995/1996 1 win / 17 rides, 1996/1997 3 wins / 24 rides, 1997/1998 6 wins /43 rides, 1998/1999 7 wins / 52 rides and in 1999/2000 8 wins 67 rides. By 2000, JP relocates alot of resources to Britain and guys like John Joe O’Neill (who had been with JP since JP’s first step into owning horses) are patronized along with Henderson and a then up and coming Nicholls
In Ireland, during this period , things are much better. 1988/1989 0 wins/4 rides, 1989/1990 3 wins / 13 rides, 1990/1991 3 wins 16 rides, 1991/1992 6 wins/30 rides, 1992/1993 9 wins / 54 rides, 1993/1994 16 wins/ 83 rides, 1994/1995 15 wins/87 rides, 1995/1996 28 wins / 103 rides, 1996/1997 22 wins / 129 rides, 1997/1998 23 wins / 194 rides, 1998/1999 33 wins 234 rides, 1999/00 40 wins 258 rides
JP McManus first Irish Title was in 1995/1996!!!! He would be champion owner in Ireland all the way up until 2009/2010 when Gigginstown started to become dominant on the Irish scene.
In Ireland, before JP won his Irish title in 1995/1996 he was using Edward O’Grady and Arthur Moore as his main trainer, both of whom were champion trainers. The Year that he won his first Irish Title, he started using Aidan O’Brien, who actually boosted JP’s win record . In 1995/1996, Aidan O’Brien ran 4 horses and won 9 with 18 rides, his best trainer. By 1996/1997, Christy Roache was brought in and he got some fine horses, O’Brien still won for him
Aidan O’Brien had been Irish National Hunt Champion trainer in 1993/1994, 1994/1995, 1995/1996 , 1996/1997, 1997/1998
JP’s first superstar in Britain was Istrabraq. Aidan was already a group 1 winner in Ireland and Britain
Aidan O’Brien’s first two titles were achieved without a single JP McManus owned horse!!!! He won his third with little to no help from JP. JP came to Aidan, not Aidan going to JP. Aidan was already a champion trainer!!! You could not be more wrong!
before he joined Coolmore (at that time one of the best breeding operation and since then the best period) and has consistently bagged top honours
Yes, but bred for other owners .
Consistently? Vincent O’Brien had not won a British classic since the 2000 Guineas in 1984, and Derby in 1982.In Ireland it was slightly more respective with his last Irish classic being the 2000 Guineas & Irish St in 1988 and last Irish Derby in 1985. O’Brien retired in 1994.
“Coolmore” first true home bred superstar stallion was Saddlers Wells. He was winning classics alright, but not for Coolmore. Vincent was using Golden Fleece, Be My Guest and the usual purchases from the US
You can have the arsenal, but you still need the trainer(s)!!!! Look at Sheikh Mo and the Godolphin transition, grand for a while then it went belly up by the late 1990’s. Your ignorance is laughable in your attempt to make light of Aidan O’Brien’s achievements. Coolmore success on the track had dried up big time before Aidan O’Brien came in.That stats don’t lie.
whilst getting the choice of the best Coolmore stock available and yet you believe that no other trainer given that set of circumstances would be as successful……ok.
On a consistent basis ? for over 20 years? No and the evidence is there for all to see.
Cecil failed, Stoute failed……… Sheikh Mohammed and Godolphin failed to maintain the consistency that helped them dominate the sport from 1985-1996 and it can’t have been all down to the lack of quality in the trainer. Cecil was still winning big races after Sheikh Mo left him, and his downfall was coming when you look at how he was dipping under his usual 100 plus win a season record .
Someone like Stoute does not become a bad trainer overnight. He won 5 titles in the 2000’s , his last one in 2009 but he won the Arc and Derby in 2010.His win rate is still rock solid , and that is plenty of evidence and support for all other big owners to pledge their trust on him. Coolmore can’t and won’t win every Group 1 in Britain
They had the pick over every major money Lord in town in Britain. Jesus, Paul Cole was Champion trainer in 1991, where is he now? Champions tend to build on that success.
O’Brien’s story is similar to that of Andre Fabre, both came from National Hunt backgrounds. Both dominate their country’s racing, yet, despite Fabre having EVERY major owner-breeder as a client, including Coolmore, what has he done outside France?
If Aiden were to stop training for Coolmore (will never happen)
We shall seehe knows he would be in for a culture shock
So, who will take his place at Ballydoyle, ? Remains to be seen how good Galileo’s progeny are as Stallions, the sport goes in circlesbecause whilst many of the top owners would indeed be looking to team up with him he would not have that exclusive access to the best stock
Exclusive?
Many of Coolmore’s best stock was BOUGHT AT PUBLIC SALES. Open for everyone else to bid! So, no, they were were NOT exclusive .Granted some of their very best were fully home bred but if they were solely reliant on home breds they would not be as dominant .Galileo was sold to them, but, I don’t think that was by public sale.
Australia: Galileo x Ouija Board was sold at Tattesalls 525,000 Guineas in 2012, and she had not produced anything of note before going to Galileo , so it was a risk buying him. Highland Reel was bought at Tattersals for 460,000 Guineas.Order of St George was bought in the US for $550,000 . Montjeu was not home bred and he was sold to Tabor (not sure whether that was via public sales or not) .Hurricane Run was bought at sales . Fame and Glory was bought at public sales. They bought Camelot at the sales for 525,000 Guineas (and bought his older half sister the year before, and she did nothing on the track) Leading Light was bought for 520,000 guineas at Tattersalls, Same with St Nichollas Abbey and High Chaparral. Mastercraftsman I believe was sold at public sales (could be wrong on that one), Alexandrova was definitely bought at the public sales, as was George Washington and Treasure Beach.
Coolmore also bought a load of non Coolmore bred and raced broodmares at Public Sales, ie open to anyone else to bid.Most well known one was the 6 million that they spent on the Irish Oaks winner of 2013
Aidan O’Brien and his wife bred Rock of Gibraltar .They bought So You Think, and anyone else could have put a bid in.
They could have bought Motivator, a son of Montjeu, for peanuts at the sales , and Authorised for 400k plus.
When you look at the kind of money spent by other owners on horses ; eg the unraced Frankel x Finsceal Beo filly bred by Michael Ryan and sold for over a million quid, or the other Frankel filly, Toulifaut
, who cost 1.9 million quid, you will see that there are and there were plenty of owners not called Godolpin or Coolmore that are more than prepared to depart with a lot of money.that he enjoys now as those owners have historically spread their horses between various trainers
Coolmore have and had spread their horses over to various other trainers like David Wachman, Andre Fabre, Hammond in Frace and O’Callaghan in Britain. Coolmore still send horses to Stoute and Gosden. When you are getting CONSISTENT success with one trainer, it is wise to support them
Any owner who puts all his eggs into one basket, ie retaining one main trainer leaves himself exposed if that trainer has a poor season due to something light a virus being rampant in his stable. We saw how things didn’t always work out of for the Aga Khan when he hired John Oxx as is main trainer for Britain and Ireland, at least not over a period of 20 years (most of his were based between two or three in France) Who is seriously challenging Stoute as the main trainer for Highclere, Cheveley, Ballymacool and The Queen?Things haven’t gone too great for Godolpin with their heavy patronage of Bin Suroor, has it? No surprise that things have picked up for them since they went back using Public trainers (all due to John Ferguson, which he hasn’t got credit for)
and would continue to do so – oh and good luck if you think Sheikh Mo would have any involvement whatsoever with him after his own historical spats with Coolmore.
The Sheikh have proven time and time again to be an idiot. Anyone with sense and is comfortable financially would be bonkers to get involved with Godolpin. Gosden won’t need to rely on them for Championship Titles , thankfully.
Oh and please don’t make this an English against Irish thing as there is no place for that on this forum
It is blatant!
I have total respect for all that Aiden has achieved in his career to date (long may it continue)
Your absolute and laughable ignorance about the man and his achievements suggest otherwise. Your statement is devoid of basic fundamental facts, which are rather easily and quickly verified
but I just believe that other trainers are equally capable a replicating what he has done had they been given the same opportunity he was.
How many more opportunities does John Gosden need? His success was relatively quick in the US, he came back to Britain as a somebody. He is an excellent communicator and networker , is respected on and off the track and has the telephone number of every major breeder and owner in the book. They have access to funds to bid against Coolmore for these Galileo’s that go to the sales , Gosden has already proven himself with Galileo progeny. Where were all the other newer owners when Cecil was going under the 100 win a season mark and before his huge slump? Hadn’t he done enough and was championed by racing people by then to be given a chance?
It is one thing to rise to the top, it is a complete and utter different kettle of fish to stay there.
I fully appreciate from your detailed posts that you don’t share the same view on this matter and I will simply leave it there.
You shouldn’t be allowed to get away with fundamental factual errors though
It is one thing to call on opinion, and another to have an ill informed oneFor the record, Gosden is my FAVOURITE trainer. I love the way Stoute trains horses, the right way. I am angry that Luca Cumani has been thrown to the dust bin of history after what he has achieved. I get far more satisfaction when Jim Bolger wins major races. And Cecil, well, he is an undisputed legend and sorely missed
Some Coolmore homebreds (bred by various Coolmore entities) are put through the sales ring with the intention of being bought back, sometimes to advertise the stallion, sometimes to set up or break up partnerships, etc.
They include some of the horses mentioned above:Highland Reel
Order of St George
Mastercraftsman
Leading Light
High Chaparral
AlexandrovaAlso, just to clarify, Galileo was co-bred by Coolmore and the Tsui family.
Don’t see Juddmonte doing that . 
. Look at the lengths that they go to in maintaining not just Ballydoyle Stables but their Breeding stable up the road from that, not to mention their National Hunt Stables . They cut and harvest their own feed and are pretty self contained.
It is one thing to call on opinion, and another to have an ill informed one
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