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After running in HK on Saturday Carlton House will be transferred to Sydney trainer Gai Waterhouse, the 114 time Group 1 winning trainer and daughter of the legendary 279 G1 winning world record holder Tommy Smith.Gai gets the nod to be the Queen’s first Australian trainer,she has a phenomenal record though her horses tend to not bring their Sydney form to Melbourne. Probably one of the best performed horses to be sent here from England and a very smart move by Her Majesty to take advantage of a lack of 10 to 12f horses here at present, and also some very nice mile races for him. If all goes to plan one could see him pocketing several million dollars,as i would say the Cox Plate would be on the agenda.
Phenomonal record of doping horses and getting a slap on the wrist for it also.
For memory she has a positive in 2005,though this is your thing,it is not the first time is it:) You mentioned the same thing about Peter Moody,one thing i do know is he did a ‘phenomanal’ job with Manighar a horse who never raced under 12f there, Cumani gave him 6 starts in England and picked up 38k 6 starts in Australia for around 580k Peter Moody banked 3 million $ in his first 6 starts and won first up over a mile.Not everyone likes Gai though credit where it is due she has trained more Grioup 1 winners in 20 years then Sir Henry Cecil in his 43 years as trainer.Gai was actually born in Scotland whilst her mother was over there(would have been difficult i suppose if her mother wasn’t!),she also did some acting here in a soap type show and also was in one of the Doctor Who episodes in England.Gai couldn’t act for sh#t,she is a lot better horse trainer however.However harking back to Manighar the record is there for all to see how badly Cumani was shown up as a trainer.Manighar had 14 starts for Cumani no wins, 9 unplaced runs,with Moody 9 starts, 4 wins 4 placings,and with Europe’s best trainer Alain de Royer-Dupre 8 starts for 6 wins and 2 placings. Enough said,it speaks for itself!
Phenomonal record of doping horses and getting a slap on the wrist for it also.
For memory she has a positive in 2005,though this is your thing,it is not the first time is it:) You mentioned the same thing about Peter Moody,one thing i do know is he did a ‘phenomanal’ job with Manighar a horse who never raced under 12f there, Cumani gave him 6 starts in England and picked up 38k 6 starts in Australia for around 580k Peter Moody banked 3 million $ in his first 6 starts and won first up over a mile.Not everyone likes Gai though credit where it is due she has trained more Grioup 1 winners in 20 years then Sir Henry Cecil in his 43 years as trainer.Gai was actually born in Scotland whilst her mother was over there(would have been difficult i suppose if her mother wasn’t!),she also did some acting here in a soap type show and also was in one of the Doctor Who episodes in England.Gai couldn’t act for sh#t,she is a lot better horse trainer however.However harking back to Manighar the record is there for all to see how badly Cumani was shown up as a trainer.Manighar had 14 starts for Cumani no wins, 9 unplaced runs,with Moody 9 starts, 4 wins 4 placings,and with Europe’s best trainer Alain de Royer-Dupre 8 starts for 6 wins and 2 placings. Enough said,it speaks for itself!
The comparison of her with Cecil is frankly laughable.
Anyone who thinks that she is in the same league as the latter is either deluded or in need of some professional help.
Whilst not denying that she is a good trainer you are comparing her to undoubtedly one of the greatest trainers ever, in my view. My own racing memories only stretch back to the seventies, but Sir Henry , Vincent O’Brien and Andre Fabre are the three that stand outPhenomonal record of doping horses and getting a slap on the wrist for it also.
For memory she has a positive in 2005,though this is your thing,it is not the first time is it:) You mentioned the same thing about Peter Moody,one thing i do know is he did a ‘phenomanal’ job with Manighar a horse who never raced under 12f there, Cumani gave him 6 starts in England and picked up 38k 6 starts in Australia for around 580k Peter Moody banked 3 million $ in his first 6 starts and won first up over a mile.Not everyone likes Gai though credit where it is due she has trained more Grioup 1 winners in 20 years then Sir Henry Cecil in his 43 years as trainer.Gai was actually born in Scotland whilst her mother was over there(would have been difficult i suppose if her mother wasn’t!),she also did some acting here in a soap type show and also was in one of the Doctor Who episodes in England.Gai couldn’t act for sh#t,she is a lot better horse trainer however.However harking back to Manighar the record is there for all to see how badly Cumani was shown up as a trainer.Manighar had 14 starts for Cumani no wins, 9 unplaced runs,with Moody 9 starts, 4 wins 4 placings,and with Europe’s best trainer Alain de Royer-Dupre 8 starts for 6 wins and 2 placings. Enough said,it speaks for itself!
The comparison of her with Cecil is frankly laughable.
Anyone who thinks that she is in the same league as the latter is either deluded or in need of some professional help.
Whilst not denying that she is a good trainer you are comparing her to undoubtedly one of the greatest trainers ever, in my view. My own racing memories only stretch back to the seventies, but Sir Henry , Vincent O’Brien and Andre Fabre are the three that stand outWhat a stupid statement by you! It smacks of being one eyed only able to see in your own back yard! The fact is she has trained more Group 1’s then Cecil! Cecil is also about 170 Group 1 wins behind her father Tommy Smith.So best you don’t talk rubbish,what i have said is fact not opinion! More Group 1’s. The French trainers have won 2 of the last 3 Melbourne Cups,the English are still waiting for their first,because the French were smart enough to look at history and give their horses lead up runs,whilst most of the English trainers tried to win it by training the same way they do at home.Bart Cummings has 265 Group 1 wins,so before you look at only trainers in your neck of the woods open your eyes!!! One day you are going to see one of these moderately performed horses tranferred here go back over there and show how much they have improved.Sydney is renowned for being one of the hardest places in the world to succeed in,Cecil’s 10 leading trainer stats pales when compared to Tommy Smith 33 in succession! Yes thats right you are reading correctly 33 trainers premierships in a row!!! Take David Payne as an example,trained over 100 Group 1 winners in South Africa,emigrated to Australia in 2002,has had a total of 1 Goup 1 winner in 2003 and his only other was in 2012 both in Sydney,and has a strike rate that is extremely poor.It gives an indication how tough it is here.
Dear Old Jolly!! You go for it mate. Very amusing
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Dear Old Jolly!! You go for it mate. Very amusing
If facts amuse you,you are easily entertained Jonibake,my point being that sometimes,some people there need to take their heads out of their a#se instead of thinking horses,trainers and anything to do with horse racing stops there.Looks like things havn’t changed much,always thinking you are superior,where has that got you over the years.Trying to colonise everyone,thats why it is spot the Englishman where ever you go,because there isn’t many of you left! You know it is ruining your country mate!For once look outside your little world and think maybe we aren’t as superior as we think
Dear Old Jolly!! You go for it mate. Very amusing
If facts amuse you,you are easily entertained Jonibake,my point being that sometimes,some people there need to take their heads out of their a#se instead of thinking horses,trainers and anything to do with horse racing stops there.Looks like things havn’t changed much,always thinking you are superior,where has that got you over the years.Trying to colonise everyone,thats why it is spot the Englishman where ever you go,because there isn’t many of you left! You know it is ruining your country mate!For once look outside your little world and think maybe we aren’t as superior as we think
Perhaps this is not the site for you then my little one eyed friend!
Of course we don’t THINK we are superior. How ludicrous!
We ARE superior!!
I know life must be tough for you guys at the mo. A cricket team in terminal decline. A rugby team that must continually play second fiddle to their neighbours. Athletes who can only muster a paltry 7 golds between them. Enough to make you weep!
Add to that horses that noone really knows or cares about and it is no wonder you come on these sites to see what is happening in the real world of sport.
As for the topic – Carlton House will undoubtedly do much better over there as the quality of your middle distance horses is poor in the extreme. You know it. I know it. The world knows it.
We may not have everything right in this country but, as this summer proved, we are on the way back up again. Unlike your sorry lot.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Dear Old Jolly!! You go for it mate. Very amusing
If facts amuse you,you are easily entertained Jonibake,my point being that sometimes,some people there need to take their heads out of their a#se instead of thinking horses,trainers and anything to do with horse racing stops there.Looks like things havn’t changed much,always thinking you are superior,where has that got you over the years.Trying to colonise everyone,thats why it is spot the Englishman where ever you go,because there isn’t many of you left! You know it is ruining your country mate!For once look outside your little world and think maybe we aren’t as superior as we think
Perhaps this is not the site for you then my little one eyed friend!
Of course we don’t THINK we are superior. How ludicrous!
We ARE superior!!
I know life must be tough for you guys at the mo. A cricket team in terminal decline. A rugby team that must continually play second fiddle to their neighbours. Athletes who can only muster a paltry 7 golds between them. Enough to make you weep!
Add to that horses that noone really knows or cares about and it is no wonder you come on these sites to see what is happening in the real world of sport.
As for the topic – Carlton House will undoubtedly do much better over there as the quality of your middle distance horses is poor in the extreme. You know it. I know it. The world knows it.
We may not have everything right in this country but, as this summer proved, we are on the way back up again. Unlike your sorry lot.
You need to settle down and go to the local deli (owned by non english of course:))and buy yourself a drink,our Rugby team beat your rugby team last time we met,and um we are about to go past you into 2nd on the test team rankings,England 1 gold medal in Atlanta:)No they improve because we havn’t got 1 dimensional trainers,Black Caviar is a lot better known than Frankel in England mate,so grow up and pop down and buy that drink.Franel 3D
what an embarrassment to write such tripe.Superior in which way:) We had no GFC was managed a little smarter here,what GFC our Prime Minister gave us each a $1000 dollars to spend,sporting well we pretty much beat you at everything including last time the England football team played the soceroos:),salaries well the average salary in my state is 52000 GBP, over there if you have a Doctorate with a PHD,you can expect 51000 GBP! No Doctorate with your PHD? Well then expect much much less! So still struggling to see the superiority It doesn’t really matter what the record of Australian race trainers are as things stand. The Australian authorities are leniant on the trainers who dope their horses. One of Waterhouses horses tested positive for Cocaine, and she got a $15000 fine. Another of hers tested positive for a significant amount steroids, and she got fined $10000. I recall we had this debate when you were on here blowing your didgeridoo before Black Caviar was running. Well since then there has also been an article in the Australian press about some high profile people within racing talking about the drugs problem in Australian racing, and how performance enhancers are widespread in thoroughbreds over at your end. EPO and milshaking are definitely on the menu in Austrlian racing, and i suspect that is why your ‘world class’ trainers can get 2 milers to run in sprints. The Queen and the Oxford Olivers may turn a blind eye to it, but that says more about their public relations morality than anything else.
It doesn’t really matter what the record of Australian race trainers are as things stand. The Australian authorities are leniant on the trainers who dope their horses. One of Waterhouses horses tested positive for Cocaine, and she got a $15000 fine. Another of hers tested positive for a significant amount steroids, and she got fined $10000. I recall we had this debate when you were on here blowing your didgeridoo before Black Caviar was running. Well since then there has also been an article in the Australian press about some high profile people within racing talking about the drugs problem in Australian racing, and how performance enhancers are widespread in thoroughbreds over at your end. EPO and milshaking are definitely on the menu in Austrlian racing, and i suspect that is why your ‘world class’ trainers can get 2 milers to run in sprints. The Queen and the Oxford Olivers may turn a blind eye to it, but that says more about their public relations morality than anything else.
Thats why our testing puts yr swab testing to shame!It costs a lot of money to do the testing and your racing hasn’t got any.That is why when it happens they are weeded out,i can tell you that most trainers here are not running their horse on performance enhancing drugs otherwise they show in swabs,which shows we are getting them! So you havn’t had a positive there for EPO,steroids,etc,etc
I think Waterhouse got off lightly myself,though at times with so many staff,it can happen that others do the job! I am not a particularly big fan of Gai’s and her horses dont take their Sydney form to Melbourne,but to suggest that aussies trainers can get a so called distance horse to sprint is because of drugs shows how little you actually know! short of putting a rocket up the rear end mate that wont get a horse to sprint.let me explain!!! They give them lighter work,sometimes short sharp gallops,not grinding distance work. You see that is the proper way to train,you start a distance horse first up in say a 7f race,then next run a mile,then maybe 9 or 10f after that,that way you are not risking the chance of flattening them by putting them in a 12f race first up.That is the way Bart trained So You Think,though AOB went the other way training him like a grinder,which he admitted that it took him until this prep to see his mistake,and you could really tell the difference in the sprint the horse had and also he carried more condition which is his go.Fair dinkum Jolly! Maybe you ougta reeeiinnn that red nick in Shane! You might crick it!
Seriously though – you told us you were leaving after your "wonder" mare almost embarrassed herself and yet here you still trolling away and banging that same old OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE drum. You have never written anything remotely worthwhile on here. The only reason you come on here is because your racing is so boring nobody bothers talking about it "baaaack haaaooome". Australian racing? Do me a favour? I’ll watch Irish, French, Japanese, US, hell I’ll even watch Hungarian trots over your racing.
I am proud to be British. We aint perfect but we are a darn sight less jingoistic than you and our racing is superb which is why you bother us.
Go and see about getting that chip removed from your shoulder maaate.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Australia has 71 ‘Group 1’ races which includes a number of handicaps.
The UK has just 32 which are all WFA.
Mike
Fair dinkum Jolly! Maybe you ougta reeeiinnn that red nick in Shane! You might crick it!
Seriously though – you told us you were leaving after your "wonder" mare almost embarrassed herself and yet here you still trolling away and banging that same old OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE drum. You have never written anything remotely worthwhile on here. The only reason you come on here is because your racing is so boring nobody bothers talking about it "baaaack haaaooome". Australian racing? Do me a favour? I’ll watch Irish, French, Japanese, US, hell I’ll even watch Hungarian trots over your racing.
I am proud to be British. We aint perfect but we are a darn sight less jingoistic than you and our racing is superb which is why you bother us.
Go and see about getting that chip removed from your shoulder maaate.
Firstly,don’t embarrass yourself with the stupid tv stereotype with accent,when anyone tries it just makes them look like a bit of a d#ckhead,secondly i have forgotten a hell of a lot more about horses then you will ever know you forum wannabe
Thirdly almost embarressed herself You just showed your true colours there 
The mare not only was recuperating from torn chest muscles she tore the start before in Adelaide,after her gallop on the Tuesday prior to the Diamond Jubilee,she pulled up with heat in her suspensory,which she had torn a small amount off the bone in her 5th start!She has been a patch up job from her 3rd start onwards.Nobody talks about racing here:):):) We see every race run here maaate,all of yours,french harness racing,our racing gets crowds some 100 000+.Your racing isn’t superb the arab sheiks keep you just holding on.No chip here you arrogant pompous ignoramus.Australia has 71 ‘Group 1’ races which includes a number of handicaps.
The UK has just 32 which are all WFA.
Mike
Every great Australian WFA horse also won those Handicaps,and yes we have more Group 1’s but we are a 24 hour plane ride from England whereas you could fly a horse to and back to a big slice of Europe to have a go at their Group 1’s in less time than it takes a horse to fly the 5 hour 40 mins from Perth to Brisbane.And your trainers do compete in a lot of the European Group 1’s also i would probably say that probably another 50 races that TJ and Bart won are now Group 1’s that were not when they won.And the English horses havn’t been able to win the biggest Handicap the Cup.And good luck to any sprinters who try and win the pinnacle of world sprinting, which is the Newmarket Handicap,they are still 2 of the hardest races to win in the world.
Fair dinkum Jolly! Maybe you ougta reeeiinnn that red nick in Shane! You might crick it!
Seriously though – you told us you were leaving after your "wonder" mare almost embarrassed herself and yet here you still trolling away and banging that same old OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE drum. You have never written anything remotely worthwhile on here. The only reason you come on here is because your racing is so boring nobody bothers talking about it "baaaack haaaooome". Australian racing? Do me a favour? I’ll watch Irish, French, Japanese, US, hell I’ll even watch Hungarian trots over your racing.
I am proud to be British. We aint perfect but we are a darn sight less jingoistic than you and our racing is superb which is why you bother us.
Go and see about getting that chip removed from your shoulder maaate.
Firstly,don’t embarrass yourself with the stupid tv stereotype with accent,when anyone tries it just makes them look like a bit of a d#ckhead,secondly i have forgotten a hell of a lot more about horses then you will ever know you forum wannabe
Thirdly almost embarressed herself You just showed your true colours there The mare not only was recuperating from torn chest muscles she tore the start before in Adelaide,after her gallop on the Tuesday prior to the Diamond Jubilee,she pulled up with heat in her suspensory,which she had torn a small amount off the bone in her 5th start!She has been a patch up job from her 3rd start onwards.Nobody talks about racing here:):):) We see every race run here maaate,all of yours,french harness racing,our racing gets crowds some 100 000+.Your racing isn’t superb the arab sheiks keep you just holding on.No chip here you arrogant pompous ignoramus.Ask yourself if the Sheiks pulled out of racing there,what state would it be in?Also red neck hey
Maybe that is because we get a bit more sunshine,it certainly couldn’t be referring to the derogatory term as i would be confident that i am a tad better educated than you
The mare not only was recuperating from torn chest muscles she tore the start before in Adelaide,after her gallop on the Tuesday prior to the Diamond Jubilee,she pulled up with heat in her suspensory,which she had torn a small amount off the bone in her 5th start!She has been a patch up job from her 3rd start onwards.Nobody talks about racing here:):):) We see every race run here maaate,all of yours,french harness racing,our racing gets crowds some 100 000+.Your racing isn’t superb the arab sheiks keep you just holding on.No chip here you arrogant pompous ignoramus.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.