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On the weight allowance, I am not convinced it is necessary on the Flat but it might be worth considering over jumps. I think it is generally accepted the winter game is more physically demanding: longer races, heavy ground, falls etc. I cannot believe a man’s extra strength is not an advantage.
Kevin Blake advocated for a system like they have in France to give females a 3lb weight allowance in handicaps. That was a few years ago before the emergence of Holly Doyle. Who doesn’t clear 5ft and is probably 8st wet through with a box of spanners in both hands.
So that sort of shits all over that idea.
Where do you stop with that as well? Give 1lb and 1/2 to non binary riders?
As usual in a debate about chauvinism and accusations of misogyny, when people are challenged on the utter stupidity of what they say they simply refuse to listen to reason.
“Bryony isn’t getting enough rides wahhhh wahhh wahhh booooo hissss, there’s a concerted effort to prevent her from getting enough rides due to rampant misogyny wahhh wahhh wahhh”
“Where do you suggest she gets other rides from?”
Bryony isn’t getting enough rides wahhh wahhh wahhh you’re all misogynists”
“But who should be giving her more rides? Where has she lost them from?”
“SHES NOT GETTING ENOUGH RIDES YOURE ALL EVIL SEXIST SCUM MISOGYNISTS”
I don’t believe anything said in the original article is “utterly stupid”.
In a scenario where she was effectively a whistleblower, it is reasonable to ask the question as to whether it has affected her career / perception in the industry.
Done some adding up and here are some win/run percentages from a couple of time periods.
2018 to date;
Harry Cobden 705/3251 – 21.6%
Harry Skelton 801/3719 – 21.5%
Brian Hughes 1018/5654 – 18%
Bryony Frost 268/1670 – 16%
Sam Twiston Davies 662/4263 – 15.5%
Rachel Blackmore 437/3006 – 14.5%
Robbie Dunne 163/1802 – 9%2020 to date;
Harry Cobden 520/2293 – 22.7%
Harry Skelton 492/2362 – 20.8%
Brian Hughes 730/3956 – 18.4%
Bryony Frost 180/1159 – 15.5%
Rachel Blackmore 313/2016 – 15.5%
Sam Twiston Davies – 450/3014 – 14.9%
Robbie Dunne 93/1078 – 8.6%Regardless of the ride quantity she gets Bryony’s win percentage does not suggest a reason not to put her up.
The things I want most in life are the things that I can't win.
Bryony Frost has two rides for the in-form Lucy Wadham today.
One is joint third of eight in the betting, the other is fourth of 12.
The market expects her to finish third and seventh – if she does better she has outperformed expectations, if she does worse it’s arguable she has underperformed, though obviously “they’re not machines” and any horse can have an off day.
That’s the way I measure these things, evil scum statistical misogynist that I might be labelled by some, as exquisitely outlined by TC.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Just a couple of points on this one.
In my experience the jump jockeys culture, and I make a clear distinction between the two codes, has always been what we would now consider toxic. The experienced members would always ‘bully’ and threaten verbally and physically those they considered below them. I think it was always considered part of the ‘toughening up/learning’ process that they felt was needed and part of the game.
I’m actually not sure this was a gender specific thing more a case of the rounding on someone they/he did not like/respect, some of the language was gender specific but I have heard worse than what was reported said to males. However this time someone had the courage to call it out and expose it. I have said before that racing is too insular and this behaviour was learnt and accepted for generations of jockeys and when it was widely condemned I am sure some will hold resentment. The culture should have changed 30 years ago but racing is always so far behind the rest of society.
As for Bryony as a jockey she is good and I would not be put off backing anything she is on. My opinion is that she rides with a long rein and allows the horse to go the pace they want most of the time, this sometimes looks like great pace management and also sometimes looks like her going off to fast which I have seen in a number of races. She also lets the horse run around a bit before fences and drift around bends which I think would annoy you if you were following her. I also think she is very strong in a finish and horses run for her.
Also when I worked in racing the stable staff were 95% male, this has changed a lot and as it does we will (and have) see more and more female jockeys and I think this will continue and I can see a time in the not too distant future where the gender split in riders is equal.
“All I will say is: who should be giving Bryony Frost rides but is not now? David Walsh has not said and none of her other supporters have either. There was another article about her in the Racing Post yesterday, which makes me wonder if some sort of campaign is going on.”
Who would be orchestrating such a campaign, and why? Perhaps I am being naive, but it simply looks to me as if people are asking journalistic questions that would appear valid to ask in light of how she was treated.
“She also lets the horse run around a bit before fences and drift around bends which I think would annoy you if you were following her.”
Again, doesn’t this give some credence to Dunne’s argument? I have seen several posters on the Betfair Forum argue that Frost lets horses run around before obstacles as well.
I have to say this to ward off the inevitable criticism: it does not justify what Dunne did, he was wrong and he deserved to be punished.
“Who would be orchestrating such a campaign, and why?”
Frost’s agent? Or someone else on Team Bryony? I don’t believe three separate stories appear from out of nowhere.
Still no one seems to want to say which trainers should be putting Frost up and which riders should be jocked off.
Maybe she needs a new agent.
The things I want most in life are the things that I can't win.
Another factor that seems to have been overlooked, is the fact that aside from the top half dozen, the smaller fields many have been complaining about, also mean fewer rides for everybody.
I remember asking the question in Odds On more than twenty years ago, when Jimmy Lindley regularly told us that jockey A should be getting more rides. The question being – OK Jimmy, but will you then tell us who should get fewer rides to make this possible.
That could be a point AP and when owners/trainers are looking for a spare jockey Bryony has never been in the upper echelons so maybe her agent needs to work harder but then again maybe they do and people aren’t taking her up.
The things I want most in life are the things that I can't win.
Her agent is one Ian Turner, not a name I’m familiar with – and I’ve spent plenty of hours discussing jockey bookings with my trainer, not just for my own horses.
He is shown on the Weatherbys website as agent for just four riders – Frost, two male conditionals and one male amateur. So he’s unlikely to be anywhere near the top of a trainers contact list.
David Walsh obviously forgot to mention Frost’s agent is so obscure that a highly respected racing commentator and punter has never heard of him.
Joint third in the betting and finished third – she arguably had the edge on Fergus Gregory there!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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