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It is obviously unacceptable to follow around non-functioning alcoholics and take money out of their wallets when they are drunk; it should be unacceptable to do the equivalent to addicts of instant result/instant replay gambling machines.
Richard88: “You can’t expect shop staff to have any ability to care for gambling addicts any more than you’d expect a barman to be able to treat liver disease.” – In the UK it has been illegal, since 2005, for any bar staff to serve alcoholic drinks to someoneone who is drunk. How they are to know that is anybody’s guess, and it is rarely implemented according to the national press coverage over Christmas and New Year.
but these people are sober when they play these machines, they know what they’re doing.
don’t get me wrong I’m hardly in favour of these machines, however it seems to me that even if the government restricts the amount that people can lose at a time, the people that play them will find some other way to lose their money. If you are easily bored and have an addictive personality it’s easy enough to find a way.
Yes Judge I understand what you mean totally. But in a game of chance, you can have a good night like your friend did when your lucks in… There are 37 numbers on a roullette wheel, you get paid out at 35-1. In their computerised version of the same game…. Do you think your friend would have won the £20k in the first place? Of course not, their computer program would NEVER allow you to be that lucky. And that’s the whole crux of the matter. It’s a controlled programe, there’s no lucky run. It will give the addicted gambler just enough hope… To hang themselves.
I was a grade 1 crupier at the Ritz and a couple of other London Clubs International casinos in my youth Judge. I done many count nights, as every crupier does. Locked in a room with all of the cash, I knew at the end of the night roughly if the casino had made money, or lost it, in rarer circumstances. But they did have losing nights if a big player came in a smashed them. The newly computerised slot machines in the same casino… They would turn a profit every single night, without fail. Ask yourself why? I’ll tell you, it’s quite simple, because one is a game of chance… And the other, is not, it has a preditermined outcome. This is what computerisation allows you to do. Why take risks, when they can eliminate those risks and control the outcome?
No, Nausered, that’s a paranoid trap that people who lose on Pokerstars also seem to believe in. The Random Number Generators (RNGs) that drive FOBT casino games, online poker site dealing systems, online casinos etc do not have any sort of superuser algorithm in front of them. Any RNG for any game on the market has to be approved by the licensing group – namely the Gambling Commmission for high street bookmakers or Alderney/Kahnawake for many online firms likes Pokerstars.
The win/loss margins you mention comparing a night of live casino games and a night of machines should be quite easy to explain too. If you’re playing live roulette, how many spins per hour can you play? I don’t know the answer but it’s slow as treacle compared to the quickfire lock ‘n’ load of online roulette or roulette on a machine. As you say, casinos/FOBT machines etc make their money because the odds in these games favour the house in the long run – 37 numbers, you get paid at 35/1, you’re going to bleed off your money very slowly to the house in the end. And of course there’s a table limit or max bet to halt anyone playing the Martingale system. With a machine, you can have many more spins per hour and ‘the long run’ is reached much faster. It’s easier to get lucky and be ahead over 20 spins than it is over 200. The effect you observe is variance being delivered over a bigger sample.
It’s like Hugh Taylor. Is he a bad tipster because he hasn’t had a winner for 10 days? No because the huge body of evidence in the last five years shows he can win in the long term. I think that’s a good analogy.
For a little more info on how the Gambling Commission regulate Random Number Generators, see below.
Paranoid? Don’t be a silly billy LS you’re not at work now.
I’m far from paranoid. Also far from being a loser on Poker Stars… I’ve used the information to ensure that I am profitable on there, when I can be bothered. Seeing as you have brought the computerisation of Poker into this… The PokerStars server is running the MTT games to push as many stacks out every hand as is possible. The lower the stake, the faster the program runs. Pushing out as many players every hand increases rake, which is how they actually make their money, they make no money from the masses, if the masses are sitting there playing for hours on end (as in real world MTT poker). Big stack will win far more hands against a small stack than the odds should dictate with by far the worst hand. To make money the way their server runs, you must aquire a stack very quickly in MTT, otherwise it will find a way to boot you out even quicker when you have AA/KK against a bigger stack. The program runs at it’s fastest while the tournie is full, and slows down as the tournie gets to the last few hundred. Of course the regulators check the programs at the start. Programs can be changed, or have things added at the drop of a hat. I’ve used that information above to take down a couple of 10,000 starter MTT’s for big money. Understanding what they are doing, allows you to use it to your own advantage. But it does not change the fact that they are screwing lower limit players over. The computerisation of gambling, is a very dangerous thing indeed for the punter. These games were made centuries ago, as a game of chance. Now that chance relies on the honesty of Man as to the outcome, or a bookie to be more preciese. There has already been many instances of punters being screwed by Pokersites, big scandals… How long in the future before a great big FOBT or online casino scandal falls into the spotlight then?If I was paranoid, or mad… Why will Corals the pansies not take a horse racing bet from me today? I’d have thought crazy people would be right up your street. Your traders don’t think I’m mad anyway.
The fact is, you’ve never had the chances before to rig the game, now you do.
Any sane betting man/woman… Would never play money on anything whatsoever computerised, where the outcome is determined by a computer program, after you have placed your bet. That’s crazy, maybe I should become a saint and tour betting shops, enlightening the poor lost souls who play on your betting computers LS
Sounds like basic MTT strategy rather than any RNG shenanigans to me, Nause. Most of their MTTs are turbo (prefer slow, deep stack myself) and that structure really does reward those who accumulate a big stack in the early levels.
Any evidence for anything you’re saying about PokerStars? Otherwise it’s probably wisest that you take it down.
Yeah Kev, I must be an arber anyway.
Why do I need to take that post down LS? Go on Youtube and search online Poker Sites rigged. There’s literally hundreds of videos which you can watch all day. Do they need to take their videos down too? You seem to be very naive to the fact that Man likes to swindle his fellow Man LS. Do I trust the Russians whom run PokerStars to run a straight game? Or do I believe that programs are set up, to produce the best bottom line for them? Unquestionably I believe the latter. How many bots are running on there? Thousands, bots programmed to play the best strategy taking their cut too. Which just happens to be the total opposite to playing in real life… Try calling smaller stacks whom have AA in real life with 7-3 off… Do you want to place a bet on how many times you will beat it and flop three sevens? It’s the edge in MTT on PS. It’s the road to the poor house in real life.
For years bookies have been ‘honing’ their manipulation of the gambler. The casinos do the same. Tell me LS, why do your shops play a constant brain numbing audio all day long? Why do you ensure that there is one event starting, just after the one before in your shops which has increased massivley in the past twenty years? You and I both know that the reason why it is, because you learned that this is the road to your best bottom line. How do you get that money, from the dumb punters pocket, into yours. In a betting shop it’s set up so that you cannot concentrate, you manipulate that atmosphere to ensure this. There’s nothing wrong with this IMO, it’s similar to a casino comping punters who are winning, to keep them in the gaff and get the money back. They are all ploys ensured to maximise your bottom line.
Then along comes computerisation of the games. Now it’s ‘programs’ determining the outcome of the game, not physical objects, like a ball and wheel or a deck of cards. And the honest bookies who are now corporations, have never looked at this, and licked their lips. Of course not. I believe you LS. It’s all totally straight.
I’ll just carry on trying to get a straight win bet on the horses, whilst never betting on anything where a computer controlled by you dicates the outcome.
Whilst you can carry on talking about arbers, and removing all risk from your trading/killing horse racing.
I’m off to load up £25K on Coral Virtual Casino, cos you’ll welcome me with open arms to do this… I wonder why that is.
No video of PokerStars on YouTube is relevant at all. One single hand where someone gets a bad beat or a cooler means nothing – nor do hundreds of them. It’s something that happens in poker. It’s something that happens tens of thousands of times a day on a poker site that deals millions of hands per day. That’s what I’m talking about – reaching ‘the long term’ in a short space of time due to a large sample. You (and thousands of others) don’t seem to understand that concept.
You have no evidence and you’re accusing companies of dishonesty. Generally that’s the sort of thing you wouldn’t want your name and IP address linked to…
Refer to Gingertipster’s arguments with that guy who thought he had a ‘system’ for winning at roulette for more on the subject – was it billion or Mr E? I think he explains what I’m trying to say in much more eloquent terms.
No you misssed the point LS regarding the Youtube videos, I just meant that there’s thousands out there whom have said the same as me. You seem to want me to take the posts down, or shut up about your computerised betting games. Even resorting to vieled threats (I of course use a VPN anyway, thanks all the same)
You diverted this conversation onto PS, not me treacle.
Go have a walk around some of the high end casinos in Mayfair. Talk to a high roller, ask them if they would ever contemplate placing large bets on your virtual versions of their favourite games. To a man they would all laugh in your face, if you had the chance to speak to them. I’d place a large wager on that fact. In fact I’d place a large wager on the fact that you would not even bother asking them.
Again, number of people agreeing with you doesn’t mean a thing. Consensus (and this isn’t even that) doesn’t equal truth.
I don’t think I’d want to ask anyone who plays casino games for advice about gambling. You’re making a bad decision if you even sit down to play one of those games whether it be live, online, on a machine or wherever.
I’m quite happy to talk about FOBTs, at least from an integrity perspective. People lose on them because the odds of the games are against them, as you explained yourself. You’re making some massive assumptions about the Gambling Commission’s regulation and testing of these games. I suggest you read this in full – makes my blood boil when people post their conspiracies and slurs without doing a jot of research into the standards that are actually upheld.
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/Remote-gambling-and-software-technical-standards.pdf
At the risk of Lost Soldier self-combusting I present the link to another reasonable and well thought out article by Greg Wood :)
If the courses do lose out on media rights payments, the Jockey Club will have to put its hand in its deep pocket.
That’s a very well written article. It also points to the basic fact, that you can’t believe a single word which the bookies spout about this subject. They are far to up to their necks in it with these machines.
It leaves a very nasty taste in my mouth as a long term horse racing lover/punter. All of the chit chat in the world LS, will not change the fact that when the machines get limited… You will become intrested in horse racing again… I’ll bet I’d then be able to get a bet on with Corals again too.
Can you hear Nick Rust?
If racing loses out on media rights payments as a result of a cut to £2 maximum on FOBT’s, it will be money it has not earned and does not deserve.
And to think someone on ATR put Rust up as man of 2017 and someone on here as hero of year
Personally think the guy should resign.
I’m far from paranoid. Also far from being a loser on Poker Stars… I’ve used the information to ensure that I am profitable on there, when I can be bothered. Seeing as you have brought the computerisation of Poker into this… The PokerStars server is running the MTT games to push as many stacks out every hand as is possible. The lower the stake, the faster the program runs. Pushing out as many players every hand increases rake, which is how they actually make their money, they make no money from the masses, if the masses are sitting there playing for hours on end (as in real world MTT poker). Big stack will win far more hands against a small stack than the odds should dictate with by far the worst hand. To make money the way their server runs, you must aquire a stack very quickly in MTT, otherwise it will find a way to boot you out even quicker when you have AA/KK against a bigger stack. The program runs at it’s fastest while the tournie is full, and slows down as the tournie gets to the last few hundred. Of course the regulators check the programs at the start. Programs can be changed, or have things added at the drop of a hat. I’ve used that information above to take down a couple of 10,000 starter MTT’s for big money. Understanding what they are doing, allows you to use it to your own advantage. But it does not change the fact that they are screwing lower limit players over. The computerisation of gambling, is a very dangerous thing indeed for the punter. These games were made centuries ago, as a game of chance. Now that chance relies on the honesty of Man as to the outcome, or a bookie to be more preciese. There has already been many instances of punters being screwed by Pokersites, big scandals… How long in the future before a great big FOBT or online casino scandal falls into the spotlight then?
Thought the whole piece is bang on.
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