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Blimey did Sir Henry run over your cat Andy?
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/ChristopherPHammond/frankyrfstalls.jpg
Given Henry’s driving record, perhaps an unfortunate suggestion.
I must say I an amazed how the readers allowed themselves to go gaga over Frankels performance in the Guineas and shaft the performance of Homecoming Queen.Fillies are supposed to be tricky but nevertheless to consign her performance to the trash heap while lauding Frankels to the heavens is perhaps shaped by the yard from which each came. How unexpected coming from sporting gentlemen.
Your nonsensical campaign to moan and trash Frankel and his connections is very tiresome. You contradict yourself endlessly with these ludicrious arguments.
The reason some of the horses you have cited "travel" to England, is because the majority of top class races in the British isles are held in England. No top class mile race (The Irish 2000 Guineas apart) is run in Ireland. Frankel has yet to step up, so it is hardly suprising he hasn’t raced in Ireland is it?
Secondly, Homecoming Queen was a thoroughly exposed 2 year old, and has subsequently been beating in the Irish 1000 guineas. Her performance lacks any of the susbstance that Frankel’s 2000 Guineas has. I don’t believe you can be that incompetent to believe such nonsense, but then your agenda seems to be the size of Ron Jeremy’s junk.
Thirdly, in another post, you question what Frankel has achieved? 6 time Group 1 winner, unbeaten in 10. Beaten every single available top class Miler in Europe. You don’t need to travel all accross the world to prove your ability, if the ratings/form you have produced is deemed to be exceptional.
You are not alone J17 – he drives me to distraction. Andy sees things very differently from everyone else. You’ll have to get used to him I am afraid. Take it all with a big pinch of salt.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Beaten every single available top class Miler in Europe.
name them for me then….. that is, those that were
in the form of their life at the time
….
I feel an exciting list coming on….
Beaten every single available top class Miler in Europe.
name them for me then….. that is, those that were
in the form of their life at the time
….
I feel an exciting list coming on….
Pleasure:
EBF Maiden Stakes- Newmarket – 13th August 2010
Colour Vision – 11th – won maiden next time out – won Sagaro Stakes (Group 3)now rated 122
Man of God – 8th – won maiden next time out – now rated 74
Bonita Star – 5th – won maiden 1 race later – now running in grade races in USA
Genius Beast – 3rd – subsequent winner of Bet 365 Classic Trial (Group 3) – RPR 111
Nathaniel – 2nd – subsequently won maiden, 2nd in Chester Vase, won King Edward VII (Group 2) and King George (Group 1) – RPR 126Frank Whittle Conditions Stakes – Doncaster – 10th September 2010
Diamond Geezah – 3rd (beaten 17 lengths) previously finished 7 lengths 6th to Wootten Bassett – rated 90
Rainbow Springs – 2nd (beaten 13 lengths) – subsequent 3rd in Prix Marcel Boussac (Group 1) beaten 4 lengths by eventual Irish 1,000 Guineas winner Misty For Me. Since disappointed.Juddmonte Royal Lodge Stakes – Ascot – 25th September 2010
Slim Shadey – 5th (beaten 15 lengths) – subsequent 4th in 2,000 Guineas, winner of San Marcos Stakes (Grade 2) and rated 101
Treasure Beach – 3rd (beaten 11 lengths) – subsequent winner of Chester Vase (Group 3), runner up in Derby, winner Irish Derby (Group 1), winner Arlington Million (Grade 1) – RPR 122
Klammer – 2nd (beaten 10 lengths) – subsequent winner of Horris Hill (Group 3) rated 107Dubai Dewhurst Stakes – Newmarket – 16th October 2010
Saamid – 6th (beaten 17 lengths) – previous unbeaten winner of Champagne Stakes (Group 2) – rated 115
Dream Ahead – 5th (beaten 7 lengths) – previous unbeaten winner of Prix Morny (Group 1) and Middle Park (Group 1), subsequent winner of July Cup (Group 1), Betfred Sprint Cup (Group 1), Prix de la Foret (Group 1) rated 126
Waiters Dream – 4th (beaten 5 lengths) – previous winner of Acomb Stakes (Group 3) rated 109
Glor Na Mara – 3rd (beaten 5 lengths) – previous 2nd in Phoenix Stakes – rated 113
Roderic O’ Connor – 2nd (beaten 2 lengths) – subsequent winner of Criterium (Group 1) and Irish 2,000 Guineas (Group 1 – Classic)Totesport Greenham Stakes – Newbury – 16th April 2011
Strong Suit – 6th (beaten 13 lengths) – previous winner of Coventry (Group 2,)subsequent winner of Jersey Stakes (Group 3), Lennox Stakes (Group 2) and Challenge Stakes (Group 2) rated 119
Excelebration – 2nd (beaten 4 lengths) – subsequent winner of German 2,000 Guineas (Group 2/Classic), Hungerford Stakes (Group 2), Prix Du Moulin (Group 1), Gladness Stakes (Group 3) – RPR 126Quipco 2,000 Guineas – Newmarket – 30th April 2011
Broox – 13th (beaten 63 lengths) – previous winner of Prix D’Arenburg (Group 3) rated 112
Casamento – 10th (beaten 36 lengths) – previous winner of Beresford (Group 2) and Racing Post Trophy (Group 1) subsequent winner Prix Du Prince D’Orange (Group 2) rated 119
Rerouted – 8th (beaten 27 lengths) – previous winner of Tatteralls Stakes (Group 3) rated 110
Pathfork – 7th (beaten 26 lengths) – previous unbeaten winner of Futurity (Group 2) and National Stakes (Group 1) rated 120
Fury – 5th (beaten 18 lengths) – previous winner of Tatteralls Million rated 103
Slim Shadey – (beaten 15 lengths) – subsequent winner of San Marcos Stakes (Grade 2) RPR 115
Native Khan – 3rd (beaten 6 lengths) – previous winner of Solario (Group 3) and Craven Stakes (Group 3) RPR 118
Dubawi Gold – 2nd (beaten 6 lengths) – subsequent 2nd in Irish 2,000 Guineas, winner Celebration Mile (Group 2) – RPR 119St James Palace Stakes – Royal Ascot – June 14th 2011
Rerouted (beaten 42 lengths) – see above
Grand Prix Boss (beaten 27 lengths) – previous winner of Keoi Hai Nisi Stakes (Grade 2), Asa Hai Futurity (Grade 1) and NHK Mile Cup (Grade 1) – RPR 119m
Wootton Bassett (beaten 14 lengths) – previous winner of Grand Criterium (Group 1) – RPR 120
Dubawi Gold (beaten 14 lengths), Dream Ahead (beaten 6 lengths) and Excelebration (beaten 2 ¼ lengths ) – see above
Zoffany (beaten ¾ lengths) – previous winner of Tyros Stakes (Group 3) and Phoenix Stakes (Group 1) – RPR 120Sussex Stakes – Glorious Goodwood – July 27th 2011
Rajsaman (beaten 10 lengths) – previous winner of Prix Fontainebleu (Group 3), Prix Perth (Group 3) and Prix Du Muguet (Group 2) subsequent winner of Prix Daniel Wildenstein (Group 2) – RPR 120
Rio De La Plata (beaten 7 ½ lengths) – previous winner of Vintage Stakes (Group 2), Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere (Group 1), Strensall Stakes (Group 3), Premio Vettorio (Group 1) and Premio Roma (Group 1) – RPR 119
Canford Cliffs (beaten 5 lengths) – previous winner of Coventry Stakes (Group 2), Irish 2,000 Guineas (Group 1), St James Palace Stakes (Group 1), Sussex Stakes (Group 1), Lockinge (Group 1) and Queen Anne (Group 1) – RPR 130Queen Elizabeth II Stakes – Ascot – October 15th 2011
Bullet Train (beaten 12 lengths) – previous winner of Lingfield Derby Trial (Group 3)
Side Glance (beaten 9 lengths) – previous winner of Sovereign Stakes (Group 3)
Poets Voice (beaten 9 lengths) – previous winner of Champagne Stakes (Group 2), Celebration Mile (Group 2) and Queen Elizabeth II (Group 1)
Dick Turpin (beaten 8 lengths) – previous winner of Richmond Stakes (Group 2), Greenham Stakes (Group 3), Prix Jean Prat (Group 1), Bet 365 Mile (Group 2), Summer Mile (Group 2), Premio Vittorio Di Capua (Group 1)
Immortal Verse (beaten 7 ½ lengths) – previous winner of Prix de Sandringham (Group 2), Coronation Stakes (Group 1), Jaques Le Marois (Group 1)
Also Dubawi Gold and Excelebration (see above)Lockinge Stakes – Newbury – May 19th 2011
Ransom Note – (beaten 19 lengths) – previous winner of the Joel Stakes (Group 2) and Earl Of Sefton Stakes (Group 3)
Windsor Palace – (beaten 21 lengths) – previous winner of the Moresbridge Stakes (Group 3)
Also Excelebration, Dubawi Gold and Bullet Train (see above)Total
Group 3 – 20
Group 2 – 24
Group 1 – 29
Total Group wins – 73"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Camelot has traveled overseas to race competitively on three occasions. So maybe he will stay at home to win the Irish Derby.How about Black Caviar? How far has she traveled to take on the opposition" How about Frankel’s travels? Newmarket,Ascot, Sandown? Really a world beater.Come off it Henry, get out the old horse box and travel the world.Or at least to Ireland for the Championm Stakes at Leopardstown. Godolphin in their hayday always came.Is Sir Henry the only world class trainer who ducks and dodges the world? Certainly Sir Michael never stayed at home if he had the horses. Perhaps it is not Sir Henry but the owner who is afraid to be beaten."Come into my parlour" said Sir Henry to Aidan.
Ducks and dodges the world?
The man has won 29 Group races outside of England.
His record straight from Wilipedia something you should look up before writing garbage
1,000 Guineas – (6) – One in a Million (1979), Fairy Footsteps (1981), Oh So Sharp (1985), Bosra Sham (1996), Sleepytime (1997), Wince (1999)
2,000 Guineas – (3) – Bolkonski (1975), Wollow (1976), Frankel (2011)
Ascot Gold Cup – (5) – Le Moss (1979, 1980), Ardross (1981, 1982), Paean (1987)
Champion Stakes – (4) – Indian Skimmer (1988), Bosra Sham (1996), Twice Over (2009, 2010)
Coronation Stakes – (5) – Roussalka (1975), One in a Million (1979), Chalon (1982), Chimes of Freedom (1990), Kissing Cousin (1994)
Derby – (4) – Slip Anchor (1985), Reference Point (1987), Commander in Chief (1993), Oath (1999)
Dewhurst Stakes – (3) – Wollow (1975), Diesis (1982), Frankel (2010)
Eclipse Stakes – (4) – Wolver Hollow (1969), Wollow (1976), Gunner B (1978), Twice Over (2010)
Falmouth Stakes – (3) – Chalon (1982), Chimes of Freedom (1990), Timepiece (2011)
Fillies’ Mile – (6) – Formulate (1978), Oh So Sharp (1984), Diminuendo (1987), Tessla (1988), Bosra Sham (1995), Reams of Verse (1996)
International Stakes – (3) – Wollow (1976), Royal Anthem (1999), Twice Over (2011)
King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes – (3) – Reference Point (1987), Belmez (1990), King’s Theatre (1994)
Lockinge Stakes – (2) – Belmont Bay (1981), Prismatic (1985), Frankel (2012)
Middle Park Stakes – (2) – Cajun (1981), Diesis (1982)
Nassau Stakes – (8) – Roussalka (1975, 1976), Connaught Bridge (1979), Nom de Plume (1987), Lyphard’s Delta (1993), Midday (2009, 2010, 2011)
Oaks – (8) – Oh So Sharp (1985), Diminuendo (1988), Snow Bride (1989), Lady Carla (1996), Reams of Verse (1997), Ramruma (1999), Love Divine (2000), Light Shift (2007)
Prince of Wales’s Stakes – (5) – Lucky Wednesday (1977), Gunner B (1978), Perpendicular (1992), Placerville (1993), Bosra Sham (1997)
Queen Anne Stakes – (4) – Belmont Bay (1981), Mr Flurocarbon (1982), Valiyar (1983), Trojan Fen (1984)
Queen Elizabeth II Stakes – (2) – Kris (1979), Frankel (2011)
Racing Post Trophy – (10) – Approval (1969), Take Your Place (1975), Hello Gorgeous (1979), Dunbeath (1982), Lanfranco (1984), Reference Point (1986), Be My Chief (1989), Peter Davies (1990), Armiger (1992), King’s Theatre (1993)
St. James’s Palace Stakes – (5) – Bolkonski (1975), Kris (1979), Shavian (1990), Dr Fong (1998), Frankel (2011)
St. Leger – (4) – Light Cavalry (1980), Oh So Sharp (1985), Reference Point (1987), Michelozzo (1989)
Sun Chariot Stakes – (2) – Home on the Range (1981), Indian Skimmer (1988)
Sussex Stakes – (6) – Bolkonski (1975), Wollow (1976), Kris (1979), Distant View (1994), Ali-Royal (1997), Frankel (2011)
Yorkshire Oaks – (5) – Connaught Bridge (1979), Diminuendo (1988), Catchascatchcan (1998), Ramruma (1999), Midday (2010)Canada Canada
Canadian International Stakes – (1) – Royal Anthem (1998)
France France
Critérium de Saint-Cloud – (1) – Passage of Time (2006)
Grand Critérium – (1) – Tenby (1992)
Grand Prix de Paris – (1) – Beat Hollow (2000)
Prix de Diane – (2) – Indian Skimmer (1987), Rafha (1990)
Prix de la Forêt – (1) – Salse (1988)
Prix d’Ispahan – (1) – Indian Skimmer (1989)
Prix du Jockey Club – (1) – Old Vic (1989)
Prix Maurice de Gheest – (1) – Pursuit of Love (1992)
Prix du Moulin de Longchamp – (1) – All at Sea (1992)
Prix Royal-Oak – (2) – Ardross (1981), El Cuite (1986)
Prix Saint-Alary – (1) – Indian Skimmer (1987)
Prix Vermeille – (1) – Midday (2010)Republic of Ireland Ireland
Irish 1,000 Guineas – (1) – Cloonagh (1973)
Irish Champion Stakes – (1) – Indian Skimmer (1988)
Irish Derby – (2) – Old Vic (1989), Commander in Chief (1993)
Irish Oaks – (3) – Diminuendo (1988, dead heat), Alydaress (1989), Ramruma (1999)
Moyglare Stud Stakes – (1) – Chimes of Freedom (1989)
Tattersalls Gold Cup – (1) – Shiva (1999)Italy Italy
Gran Premio d’Italia – (1) – El Cuite (1986)
Premio Roma – (2) – Irvine (1972), Orban (1987)
Premio Vittorio di Capua – (1) – Star Cutter (1986)United States United States
Breeders’ Cup Filly & Mare Turf – (1) – Midday (2009)
Flower Bowl Invitational Stakes – (1) – Yashmak (1997)Joni the Prix du Prince d’Orange is a group 3 race and, as far as I know, has always been. You keep referring to it as a group 2 for some reason.
Game Set and Match Joni? You are certainly a walking talking ‘Frankel’ stein who can support your Hero through a fantastic knowledge of the horse but are you really looking forward to the Queen Anne?? Predictable is a word that the Carp Fishermen use when landing the same fish time and again,I want to see King Henry cast his rod into Deeper waters something where there’s at least a Fish that will put up a fight!
Joni the Prix du Prince d’Orange is a group 3 race and, as far as I know, has always been. You keep referring to it as a group 2 for some reason.
You are right EF – will amend!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Game Set and Match Joni? You are certainly a walking talking ‘Frankel’ stein who can support your Hero through a fantastic knowledge of the horse but are you really looking forward to the Queen Anne?? Predictable is a word that the Carp Fishermen use when landing the same fish time and again,I want to see King Henry cast his rod into Deeper waters something where there’s at least a Fish that will put up a fight!
I do too Gord. I do too. But of course I am looking forward to going. You don’t see horses like this every day. For me watching this horse is an event.
BTW your analogies get better and better – you should look to get published!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Just like my feelings about Zenyatta.An event, A thrill of a lifetime,a mood elevator.A feeling of being in the presence of something wonderful.Puts Frankel in the bottom box.
No bigger fan of Zenyatta than myself and yes she was exciting to watch. Not just because she was a brilliant filly but because there was always that little bit of doubt if one day she might not get there…sadly the day came.
Frankel at a mile is untouchable as he showed when making Canford Cliffs look ordinary and he certainly wasn’t.
No one can possibly get excited about Frankel kicking Excelobration’s backside again but most of Zenyatta’s races were also foregone conclusions.
The real excitement came when she ran in the Breeders against the unknown.
You haven’t given Frankel that chance.
Sir Henry has already mapped out the Juddmonte over 10f for Frankel. The very race that the great Brigadier Gerard was beaten in.
I would imagine if he wins well he will then go for the Champion Stakes so there are 2 opportunities for others to make their moves.
There are plenty Group winners out there who can challenge him like Carlton House, Camelot, Bonfire. So You Think, Cirrus des Aigles, Nathaniel and nothing stopping them turning up in either race.
But you know what? He could take them all on and beat them pointless and you’d say but he’s never run over 12 furlongs.
The biggest joke is people trying to compare Camelot to Frankel who must be at least a stone plus weight for age inferior to the champ a horse AOB clearly has no intentions of taking within a mile for Frankel. The guineas was crap and the Derby wasn’t much better although Camelot was he is still not in the same league.
This of course is all reflected in the betting for the Champion Stakes. You won’t see many Guineas and Derby winners available at 6/1 if they were an intended runner…..clearly AOB has no intentions of running him or the bookies agree Camelot simply is out of his league.
Just like my feelings about Zenyatta.An event, A thrill of a lifetime,a mood elevator.A feeling of being in the presence of something wonderful.Puts Frankel in the bottom box.
A lovely little post completely spoilt by your needless final sentence.
I think we get it now – you don’t like Cecil and you don’t rate Frankel."this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Pleasure:
……………..
Total
Group 3 – 20
Group 2 – 24
Group 1 – 29
Total Group wins – 73..it wasn’t you I was asking, but I’m pleased you quoted all that as it should be clear to most people that it’s high on quantity but not on quality, and everyone knows that despite all those names, Excelebration is the only horse beaten into 2nd so far that is of any standing,
who showed his true merit in defeat.
…which answered my question….
Plenty of excuses for Canford Cliffs and Immortal Verse.Pleasure:
……………..
Total
Group 3 – 20
Group 2 – 24
Group 1 – 29
Total Group wins – 73..it wasn’t you I was asking,
(this is an open forum no?!)
but I’m pleased you quoted all that as it should be clear to most people that it’s high on quantity but not on quality,
(errr not to me it isnt!)
and everyone knows that despite all those names, Excelebration is the only horse beaten into 2nd so far that is of any standing,
who showed his true merit in defeat.
…which answered my question….
Plenty of excuses for Canford Cliffs and Immortal Verse.I was waiting for this UM as I know you don’t rate Frankel
Did you actually read my list? Nathaniel not a good horse? Why did they have to finish second anyway? What were the excuses for Immortal Verse? I didnt hear any! The CC excuse came over a week after the race (stud values anyone?!!)Don’t you think it is funny that all these horses were reportedly in great shape before they met him but had excuses after? If you havent worked it out yet let me help you. Frankel destroys horses.
Jim Mcgrath said it after the Guineas and we have seen it countless times since. He makes horses look bad. He takes them completely out of their comfort zone.
That is why you get a Guineas field beaten like they are in a 4 mile slog at Hexham. That is why an Irish Derby winner gets beaten 11 lengths. Three five time Group 1 winners thrashed.
Do you really honestly believe that they all just had a bad day at the office? That would make Frankel the luckiest horse alive. What are the odds on ALL those horses running below their best?
The racing world has been duped. Frankel is useless. He has no worthwhile form. The world IS flat. Cheryl Cole CAN sing. England WILL win the Euro’s.
Nothing I say will convince you I know but even so Christ on a bike……….!!!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Dear Jonibake et al.Without my contrary review of Frankel this site woud be boring.As I said someplace else without the valleys there are no mountains.For many years I faughr in Sir Henry’s corner claiming that he had a bug in his yard which affected his horses; I never thought that he was in decline as a trainer.Being Irish I am traditionally "against the government".What is the point of bragging if there is no one to brag against? Since I cannot deny that Frankel is wonderful I am constrained to finding a weakness and that is "Beyond a mile" he may not be.I will maintain that position until he proves that he can carry his brilliance over a distance of ground.However as a Californian i believe Frankel should be allowed to run over a mile on the grass in the BC at SA and claim his world wide crown.Incidentally Red Rum was the best horse in the world when he raced.But even his accolades carried a caveat.
Dear Jonibake et al.Without my contrary review of Frankel this site woud be boring.As I said someplace else without the valleys there are no mountains.For many years I faughr in Sir Henry’s corner claiming that he had a bug in his yard which affected his horses; I never thought that he was in decline as a trainer.Being Irish I am traditionally "against the government".What is the point of bragging if there is no one to brag against? Since I cannot deny that Frankel is wonderful I am constrained to finding a weakness and that is "Beyond a mile" he may not be.I will maintain that position until he proves that he can carry his brilliance over a distance of ground.However as a Californian i believe Frankel should be allowed to run over a mile on the grass in the BC at SA and claim his world wide crown.Incidentally Red Rum was the best horse in the world when he raced.But even his accolades carried a caveat.
See that’s a perfectly reasonable post!! Best to catch you early in the morning hey?!
I have to accept that not everyone shares my adulation of the horse – but I REALLY struggle to do so!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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