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We will just have to wait for the Racing Post at Doncaster to see how good he is….he was entitled to beat them today but it was a step up from Maiden to Group 2. Just have to wait and see now
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Fist i would be pretty happy with St Nick going to Doncaster….there’s nothing in that race that should worry AOB other than Chapple Hyam horse but the Chapple horse does not have the well structured tempermant of St Nick…the horse just oozed Class everywhere he went compared to the rest. He already knows that he can win most 2yr old race in England with horses that are ordinary enough hence Joshua Tree’s win.
I must admit i thought some of these English Horses this year would have a big edge over the Irish ones due to the ground but that hasn’t been the case and the Middle Park well tell us alot more about the Strength in Depth in the division on both sides of the Irish Sea.
Steinbeck is a bit of a Rip Van Winkle about him tbh….whether he will win the Guineas or not is irrevlant for me as i feel the horse is a good animal but that is on limited evidence. Cape Blanco won the trial of AOB Very good 2yr olds in the Futurity..the list of Top Class 3yr olds that won the race is very long indeed.
September Morn is another very Interesting Derby Contender for the Top Sire Montjeu who has yet to make a racecourse debut aswell as 5 other talking horses that we usually here about.
One thing for sure is that Aidan O Brien has a huge amount of talent in Colts and Filly division’s this year and Coolmore(what can you say that hasn’t been said) superb operation.
I’m not 100% against AOB running him at Donnie and unlike some I wouldn’t dream of opposing him no matter what runs. He already looks a very settled mature horse for a 2yo so I suppose it wouldn’t do him any harm especially if the opposition is on the weak side.
It’s the fact he’s not a Guineas horse that rules my way of thinking. Had he been a guineas horse I wouldn’t dream of running him again this season….I’m a great believer when you have a young horse who has huge potential you don’t try and fill the jug in one go…….that one race too many can sometimes do more harm than good.
I understand AOB point of view and what drives him….he wants to win evertyhing going but I just wonder how many times that Cavalier Attitude of his backfires on him. At the end of the day we can only guess.
Last season Mastercraftsman had won 3 good races for him and Rip Van Winkle who looked as weak as a kitten to me…something I said on here pre guineas…had won 2 races. Perhaps other trainers would have taken precaution and put both horses away for the season…. Rip because he wasn’t anywhere near fully developed IMO and Mastercraftsman because 4 races is more than enough for any horse who is likely to train on into a top 3 year old. Maybe it wouldn’t have made an ounce of difference but there’s no doubting neither horse was at their peak in the Guineas and took longer than normal to come to themelves.
He’s not the only one who trains that way Bolger ran the backside of New Approach as a 2 year old and lost out in the guineas to a horse he hammered as a 2 year old….mind you that might never have happened if AOB had persited in running Henry on soft ground which amazed a lot of people when he did so in the first place.
I may seem to be picking faults with the man but he admitted recently he was way off the mark running Cape Blanco on heavy….Like Henry his action tells you immediately that’s not his ground but he does tend to run them in the hope their class will see them through……..I sort of get the impression the man is spoiled with the amount of talent that goes through his hands and is somewhat less cautious as some others who aren’t quite as fortunate would be. After that debacle with a horse like him many trainers would have not only admitted they were wrong to run the horse but would have packed up shop for the season…in fact most trainers IMVHO would never have ran him in the first place…AOB most likely will run him in the Dewhurst anyway but that’s his way.
At the end of the day AOB is one of the most successful trainers on the planet and he’s a hard man to knock and my opinion is probably old hat these days… I’m very much influenced by a friend and trainer I spent many years listening to and set in my ways………Aiden is new wave flat trainer and I’m a old jumps man so I’m probably miles of the mark on how to handle 2 yo’s
Some of us don’t want certain horses to absolutely hack it up. I’m happy with the performance because it leaves room for alot of improvement. Let this particular horse fill out through the winter and show what it has next season. Not alot of people remember great 2 y/o. Look at Crowded House and Rainbow View.
I’m very much influenced by a friend and trainer I spent many years listening to and set in my ways………Aiden is new wave flat trainer and I’m a old jumps man so I’m probably miles of the mark on how to handle 2 yo’s
Sure Aidan is National Hunt man himself Fist. He learned his trade as a p2p rider between 1989-92. I’d say he’s a lot more old school than you’d expect.
Take a peep at the "my selections/shortlist for the 2009 Festival" thread: http://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75936&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 I put FPDP up at 25s – Great minds think alike eh Gordie!
I wouldn’t rule out the Champion Chase for FPDP next year though. Tommy Cooper and them boys from the Goat would like nothing better then a crack at the big one over two miles rather than the consolation prize that is the Ryanair. They’re not sure he truly stays 2m4+ either at this stage. He flattened out before the last in the Ballymore and he was outstayed in both the Drinmore and the Moriarty by Trafford Lad and Cooldine respectively. Presume they’ll start him out in something like the Fortria before maybe taking in the John Durkan. They could decide then whether to go up to the Lexus or back down to the Dial-A-Bet then at Christmas.
Sorry to hijack the thread from the flat lads but sure I started the feckin’ thread anyway!
Imperial,i take my Crown off to you,it is quite apparent you did tip up Forpady earlier than i thought,but i tipped him up in both the Arkle and the RSA threads,stipulating he was a 2 miler back then! I believe connections would love to see him run in the King George,if he was to win that then they would have serious Gold Cup aspirations for which he is 100/1 on Betfair! Interesting times ahead!
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St Nicholas Abbey has good potential but in reality he beat nothing. On a line through the second (Layali Al Andaluz) he is still many pounds short of other horses with just as much scope for improvement. Layali Al Andaluz was well beaten at Doncaster by Poets Voice who in turn was beaten by Elusive Pimpernel and Emerald Commander at York in the Acomb. In my opinion Elusive Pimpernel has just as much potential as St Nick but has actually achieved more already. Cant believe St Nick is 8-1 for the Derby with some firms, ridiculous price.
Only if you never took the 25,s and 20’s
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a horse called Dark Humour. His claim to fame is winning a Dundalk maiden on the all weather…….oh and he also ran Sea the Stars to 2 1/2 lengths.
The fact Layali Al Andalus finished 2nd to St Nick today will be a distant memory by this time next year and has absolutely no bearing on what the horse is capable of. One horse has been flat to the boards and ready to drop by the end of the race and the other done not one tap more than his jockey had to. On another day in a better race I doubt if Layali Al Andalus would be sighted.
I’d argue on your assessment of Elusive Pimpernel if Richard Hannon’s opinion is worth anything. His Emeral Commander was considered very unfortunate to be beaten by him but if it comes down to a choice between him and Dick Turpin in the Dewhurst or Racing Post you can bet your life Hughsie will be on the latter.
Elusive Pimpernel is a nice sort but there’s very little about him that says future classic winner………If you consider Timely Jazz who ran him to 1/2 length finished 20 lengths behind Joshua Tree…….. St Nick must have more class in his tail than that thing has in his entire body.
As crazy as that may seem it’s no more crazy than you saying St Nick can’t be much good cos he only beat Layali Al Andaluz.
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"The Ante-Post King":2rhdxh22 wrote: Take a peep at the "my selections/shortlist for the 2009 Festival" thread: http://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75936&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 I put FPDP up at 25s – Great minds think alike eh Gordie!
I wouldn’t rule out the Champion Chase for FPDP next year though. Tommy Cooper and them boys from the Goat would like nothing better then a crack at the big one over two miles rather than the consolation prize that is the Ryanair. They’re not sure he truly stays 2m4+ either at this stage. He flattened out before the last in the Ballymore and he was outstayed in both the Drinmore and the Moriarty by Trafford Lad and Cooldine respectively. Presume they’ll start him out in something like the Fortria before maybe taking in the John Durkan. They could decide then whether to go up to the Lexus or back down to the Dial-A-Bet then at Christmas.
Sorry to hijack the thread from the flat lads but sure I started the feckin’ thread anyway!
Imperial,i take my Crown off to you,it is quite apparent you did tip up Forpady earlier than i thought,but i tipped him up in both the Arkle and the RSA threads,stipulating he was a 2 miler back then! I believe connections would love to see him run in the King George,if he was to win that then they would have serious Gold Cup aspirations for which he is 100/1 on Betfair! Interesting times ahead! I’m going to bed…I popped back to check my post and thought I had posted it in the wrong thread you nutter
Sleep well,with those Derby vouchers of yours! The Racing Post will be his next race so i will pop up and do a recce for you!
St Nicholas Abbey may not have beaten a great deal – we’ll know more with time – but it was the manner of his victory that impressed me.
He travelled really well throughout, then when Murtagh gave he a couple of nudges two and half out I thought for a second or two he was in a bit of trouble
Then, before I even finished entertaining that thought, he was in front and found even more towards the line.
He still looked a bit green to me or, typical Montjeu colt, he may have his own ideas about the game, but the way he carried his head suggests to me that he won that very, very easily.
It will be I interesting to see how he progresses during the winter, but you have to thnk that Aiden has more suitable horses for the Guineas and there’s bound to be a few that we have yet to see the best of.
St Nicholas reminds me of Fame And Glory as a 2YO. He’s bred to be a top middle distance performer and everything I saw today supported that.
Agreed Bos.
He was given a push and I was certain he did not respond and was labouring alongside the Bolger horse. Few strides later, he’s on the bit and breathing down the leader’s flank. It was a sit ‘n’ steer job thereafter.
There is a great deal of infancy about his appearance and it wouldn’t surprise me if they put him out for the remainder of the season.
St Nicholas Abbey may not have beaten a great deal – we’ll know more with time – but it was the manner of his victory that impressed me.
He travelled really well throughout, then when Murtagh gave he a couple of nudges two and half out I thought for a second or two he was in a bit of trouble
Then, before I even finished entertaining that thought, he was in front and found even more towards the line.
He still looked a bit green to me or, typical Montjeu colt, he may have his own ideas about the game, but the way he carried his head suggests to me that he won that very, very easily.
It will be I interesting to see how he progresses during the winter, but you have to thnk that Aiden has more suitable horses for the Guineas and there’s bound to be a few that we have yet to see the best of.
St Nicholas reminds me of Fame And Glory as a 2YO. He’s bred to be a top middle distance performer and everything I saw today supported that.
Well evaluated there Bos,he does remind me of a blend of Fame and Glory and Mastercraftsman and he certainly isn"t bothered about the ground conditions,which is a good thing! Never a 2000gns horse either!
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Aiden O’Brien was stopped by a RP jounalist today, removed his mobile phone about 4" from his ear…turned his head slightly right and with his index finger of his left hand pulled his sunglasses down about1" stared at the reporter and said
"He’s not a slow horse"
popped his sunglasses back over his eyes, phone back to his ears started whistling and was heard mumbling to himslef "I Love this song"
Not a slow horse eh! is that good or what?
Looked very good when beating Behtarini rather comprehensively at Gowran on Saturday.
Good performance by him he picked up nice as well a cosy win by him.Do you guys think he go for Rpost trophy next or should he be put away untill next year.
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Fist i get my Irish Field…
Okay she said he a defo runner,,,,
Quote " Hes owned by Richard Pegum who had breeders cup winner Muhannak last year,but i dont know if we will be going there with him. We’ll Crawl before we walk and get the middle park out of the way first"..
I also believe they supplemented him….9/2 is a very good price…i be all over it tbh..where did u get the odds may hav a bit myself
Sorry Wallace I never saw your post…..I took 9’2 and 4’s myself but got the majority on at 5/1 ew through my agent. VC might lay you 9/2 and Cashman’s will still lay you 5’s I believe
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