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It seems Andy is right: Aidan has now turned to his son. If I was Heff or Colm this would feel like a real kick in the stones!
Joseph probably knows the horse better than most though I suppose.
Now that I am old I put aside the thinking of a child.No answer to my question about the reality of life and race experience.All those good jockeys just shunted to one side because the trainers son wants a ride.As I said either SNA is a certainty and Joseph cannot possibly screw it up or Aidan has choose to die on this hill.By the way I had a substantial wager on SNA before I found out that we are giving away the weight advantage of an apprentice but still getting the lack of experience.Normally a length’s worth.A double disadvantage.Good luck to your Ballydoyle team.
SNA may well still be up to winning the race but I find this riding arrangement to be incredulous.
If , for example, SNA and Workforce are virtually identical on the day, and it boils down to jockeyship, then a bigger mismatch I cannot recall. Ryan Moore vs J O’Brien. If it was a boxing event the referee would stop the fight !
To anyone who has an investment antepost on SNA, you have my sympathies.
Perhaps as has been suggested above, we should all be wary from now on before venturing into the antepost market over Ballydoyle runners.Hi Ruby I trust you are right. Every jockey is a screwup except Joseph and of course anyone who rides in the morning at Ballydoyle.I guess all the trainers have yet to get with the program.They must be blind.
Soullimon who disgraced himself publicly by calling Andre Fabre a twat.
Who can only ride one way
….and is loathed by all his peers.
Pffft.
For all the people that say he shouldn’t ride?
Who did you expect to ride him once Workforce was going to run 10 days ago.
Heff got the same sort of nonsense and rode a perfect race on the biggest Occasion this year for Coolmore with 40 million investment riding on him.
A big mismatch between Moore and JOB is ridiclous, I remember Moore giving horses terrible rides being beaten by vastly inferior horsemen. If the horse is good enough Joesph will win.
Plus the fact that young JOB will actually bring the horse wide IMO. He won’t be fighting for a small gap he pull him out and let him go. He can’t get it wrong IMO…its a win win situation for him.
Now all the horse has got to do…is deliver.
You are entitled to your view Ruby, and I hope for your sake that you are correct.
However, in my opinion , you are fooling yourself not to regard the jockeys as a mismatch, my friend.
One just scraped home in an apprentice jockeys championship backed by the strongest stable in the land, lacks top flight experience, and has won a single classic riding for his dad, against a champion jockey, with multiple big race winning experience, and classics in the bag.
Moore may not be in the league of Eddery and Piggott (who both also very occaisionally made mistakes), but he is still one of, if not the best in Europe.
You keep betting young O’Brien to beat Moore and you could be on the way to the poor house mate.I don’t rate joseph over Ryan but Ryan isn’t exactly a great jockey if we are honest. The above mentioned are streets ahead.
What i am saying is that generally if the horse is good enough he will win regardless of the jockey. If they are anyway competent in reality it should not make a huge difference.
Its not like Joseph is useless. He is very competent rider that has all the attributes to win a top class race. When you talk about expierence is doesn’t matter. Its not a 24 runner handicap around chester.
Its a 5 runner Group 1 at a big open track. He be fine.
So You Think when he ran in the Prince Of Wales, why make it in to a stamina test when your main rivals want a stamina test?
I guess that you are talking with hindsight there? (If not and you foretold it on your tips thread – fair dues!!)
Was ‘Rewilding’ considered a rival? A main one offered @ double figure odds?!
Truth is before the race it was seen by many as a two horse deal with ‘Plantr’ being put forward as the one to trail SYT home!
Don’t you all remember??…those bookie reps before the race saying how ‘Plantr’ was the eachway steal!! – the golden ew bet to nothing!
A little like they did with ‘Buena Vista’ before the Dubai World Cup…
Yes, I did consider Rewilding as one of So You Think’s rivals, backed (and tipped) him at 18/1. For some reason Planteur was below form. Possibly because he tracked So You Think (also going too quick early). It is not surely a coincidence that the winner and third that day Sri Putra were dropped out the back? Talk beforehand of Plantear being an each way good thing was foolish.
Another thought to be a main rival, (my other bet in the race) Twice Over, should also have been suited by a strong pace. Year before he’d tried and failed to come from off a slower pace. Not getting to his more prominently ridden owner companion Byword. Twice Over possibly below form this term due to foot problems.Value Is EverythingGingertipster you are basically saying what I have been saying since Murtagh left.Also it seems to me that Aidan has a "people problem" when it comes to sharing the glory of Ballydoyle.This is not about Aidan and his son this is about Ballydoyle and training winners.I drew attention some place else to the over cooked instructions that world class jockeys are given before their races.I stand to lose a lot of money if SNA is beaten and am dismayed at the decision to put up an apprentice.
Andyod,
Although I agree about tactics often being wrong, Murtagh wasn’t / isn’t infallible. O’Brien / Coolmore have fallen out with Murtagh and Fallon now anyway, can’t expect them to be used. Soumie ballsed Seville up not once but twice. Spencer only rides when his retainer has the major share of the horse. The ride was always going to go to an in-house jockey. CO’D, Heff or JO’B.
When you backed St Nicholas Abbey Andyod, wasn’t there a possibility Master O’Brien would ride? After all, he’d ridden Roderic O’Connor in the 2000 Guineas which was Coolmore’s first string. It may be a little frustrating, but if you feel that strongly about the jockey, why back the horse so early?Value Is EverythingI honestly thought I would get the "best jockey available on the day".I didn’t.If Joseph is the best available then they are a very poor lot.I would even settle for Eddie Ahern or Johnnie Fortune.
I don’t rate joseph over Ryan but Ryan isn’t exactly a great jockey if we are honest. The above mentioned are streets ahead.
In 30 years Ryan Moore will be regarded as one of the best ever. Astonishing jockey. Cannot believe he’s getting slagged off. I foolishly made the mistake at some point before Royal Ascot last year or 2 years ago of saying he was destined to be a second-tier jockey, but his talent is immense.
So You Think when he ran in the Prince Of Wales, why make it in to a stamina test when your
I guess that you are talking with hindsight there? (If not and you foretold it on your tips thread – fair dues!!)
Was ‘Rewilding’ considered a rival? A main one offered @ double figure odds?! Truth is before the race it was seen by many as a two horse deal with ‘Plantr’ being put forward as the one to trail SYT home!
Don’t you all remember??…those bookie reps before the race saying how ‘Plantr’ was the eachway steal!! – the golden ew bet to nothing!
A little like they did with ‘Buena Vista’ before the Dubai World Cup…
Yes, I did consider Rewilding as one of So You Think’s rivals, backed (and tipped) him at 18/1. For some reason Planteur was below form. Possibly because he tracked So You Think (also going too quick early). It is not surely a coincidence that the winner and third that day Sri Putra were dropped out the back? Talk beforehand of Plantear being an each way good thing was foolish.
Another thought to be a main rival, (my other bet in the race) Twice Over, should also have been suited by a strong pace. Year before he’d tried and failed to come from off a slower pace. Not getting to his more prominently ridden owner companion Byword. Twice Over possibly below form this term due to foot problems.As I said fair play in putting that up!
Isn’t it nice (when it works) to go against such a red hot fav! Going back to your original post I wonder why you had him down as a main rival when the market didn’t??
‘Rewilding’ was 4th in the betting (double figure odds as you know!) in a seven runner race which had two pacemakers!
Hardly a "main rival" by anyones standards! As I stated in the part that you didn’t quote:
The point of this post is – BallyD weren’t worried about anyone else – except ‘P’!
They wanted to run the guts out of him fearing that the toe of ‘Planter’ might get them – whilst playing into the hands of ‘Rewilding’… I can’t see any others in the field other than him who a strong pace would have suited!!
It’s easy to say now that it was foolish to view ‘Plantr’ as an each way steal!
It’s no coincidence that he may be dropped back to a mile next start:Planteur could sidestep York for Marois
France: Prix Ganay winner Planteur may drop back to 1m for the first time in nearly two years to take on the great Goldikova in the Prix Jacques le Marois on Monday August 15.
Speaking from his Lamorlaye stable, Lellouche said: "The horse is in great form and I will be taking a serious look at the Juddmonte International at York but he could diverted to the Prix Jacques Le Marois
Did it really suit the hold up horses?
Afterall, ‘Sri Putra’ only got up by half a length past ‘Plantr’…Was it any coincidence that ‘Twice Over’ ran a stinker the same as ‘Dick Turpin’ did (@ Longchamps) – having both run below par last time out in the Lockinge?
Are his feet to blame (for ‘TO’) or was it his jaunt to Dubai and back where he ran an equally lifeless race last time out in the World Cup!Did lack of pace (‘cos he won a very slowly run race in Dubai) or another shabby ride by TQ ’round Ascot – not do for him when he was beaten by a race fit rival in ‘Byword’ in the POW last year?
As ever : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuUTJ7gcs8A
Added: Had to post before my computer crashed! And I forgot to say – my original essence of my post was that BallyD were in a no win situation with regards tactics – they beat the horse that they felt that they needed to beat on the day (backed up by the market) – was pace (and who would suit) even discussed on the POW thread?!
I have a feeling that the only reason for why ‘Rewilding’ was not given a chance was due to being thought of as too slow!
After all Frankie had tagged him as a Leger type!
Though ‘Monterosso’ showed in the Dubai World Cup that they can hit the board with a mile and a half type over ten (even if it is a race with no pace!!)Sorry to get away from the thread subject!
I for one don’t like the fact that Moore has a foot in both camps… it can’t be right…
Perhaps as has been suggested above, we should all be wary from
Err it’s a bit late for that advise isn’t it?!!… try telling that to anyone who may have backed either ‘Roderic’ or ‘Misty’ – who trailed home last for the English Guineas – only to see them come out and show miraculous improvement next time out in winning the Irish versions!!
Whether you agree with the jockey booking or not, if Ballydoyle are in fact going with the ‘Best available option’ policy, you have to admit, this has been overlooked for young Joseph.
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It’s certainly a curious move. They could have had their pick, barring Dettori and Moore.
It suggests to me either that confidence in this horse is not high – or conversely that it’s
so
high that think anyone could win on it, and they want to get something else for the family scrapbook before young Joseph gets too tall and heavy.
All rather adds to the creeping sense that the prestige of the
King George
is not what it was.
Whether you agree with the jockey booking or not, if Ballydoyle are in fact going with the ‘Best available option’ policy, you have to admit, this has been overlooked for young Joseph.
What were they doing in the Grand Prix De Paris JJ? – In getting the ‘Go To Guy’, "Best Available" to ride the third string?!
The French reported the move as a decoy!
The ‘Go To’ never rode a winner (don’t think he did) the day that Jo was given the Birthday present of ‘Roderic’!!
(He did ride 3 seconds 1 third & a 4th at Haydock)How many were put off ‘Roderic’ for the Irish 2000 because Moore or any other of the next best available were not onboard and read that as a negative (as well as taking into account his dreadful effort in our 2000)?!!
Some might have sniffed out that it was a treat…More of the same today??… we’ll find out after 4.30!
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