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No trivialising here…I always attempt a solution to the problem rather than the ‘woe is us what can we do’ approach.
Agree that it might be too late for some of the current generations but IMO if we start prioritising in homes and schools respect for oneself and just as importantly for others then there is virtually no social problem that isn’t being fundamentally tackled from crime to drug abuse to unwanted pregnancies.
And to keep this all linked in to the thread that means leaving questioning whether Anton Du Beke’s remarks are offensive way behind in the dealt with tray……yes they are but lets swiftly condemn them and move on to the next issue, not cause mischevious confusion in the media.And to keep this all linked in to the thread that means leaving questioning whether Anton Du Beke’s remarks are offensive way behind in the dealt with tray……
But you are the one who started the debate!! In which case why start the thread in the first place – are you yourself not perpetuating the debate?
yes they are
That is your opinion – others may well disagree.
but lets swiftly condemn them and move on to the next issue, not cause mischevious confusion in the media.
You may wish condemn comments made in a private conversation that actually had nothing to do with you in the first place – however I believe in the right of free speech – to paraphrase the old saying "I may not agree with what you say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."
You may want to move onto the next issue – is it not important to discuss the issue or do you just sweep under the carpet things you don’t like.
Agree that it might be too late for some of the current generations but IMO if we start prioritising in homes and schools respect for oneself and just as importantly for others then there is virtually no social problem that isn’t being fundamentally tackled from crime to drug abuse to unwanted pregnancies.
Whilst i do agree with you about instilling respect bith self respect and for others, rectifying the situation will not be simple. It is hard to undo what has gone before.
Regarding, crime, drug abuse unwanted pregnancies – none of these are new – they have always been part of society. It is just in previous generations they were hidden away and not discussed in polite society. Part of the pandoras box of "modern society" is everything is in the open and there is no hiding place – now I am not suggesting it is a good thing but it is the reality of modern life.
I am of an age when I remember self respect and discipline being something that was instilled from an early age. I would never dream of backchatting a teacher because I knew I would be in trouble – twice in fact – once at school and then even worse trouble if my parents ever found out.
I’m afraid that civilisation and mutual respect is a long way away if you can’t even agree a basic like calling a person ‘a paki’is wrong,unfunny and offensive.
I created the thread because I was curious and annoyed at how the press were prolonging the story in my view just so the so called free speech merchants and people who seem curiously intolerant of anti racism could waste everyone’s time with in my view an unnecessary debate about what is acceptable when this clearly is not.
If every concept and utterance is going to be philosophically debated on all sides by people whose intention or motivation may not necessarily be to bring about an improvement in how people get along together then THAT is the real political correctness gone mad in my view and it may even obscure more sinister intentions because surely most people accept if we are going to improve our every day lives then abusing people over their race gender or sexual orientation can never be part of a positive outcome but treating people with respect and how you would like to be treated is.
[quote="happyYeah, and taking a girl to the pictures, having fish and chips on the way home and getting change of half a crown.
Being sent on my way with a clip round the ear by the Bobby.
Did it do you any good? I doubt it. You seem to find it easy to disrespect other people. Your racing views are to be considered, your political and social view of normal life is non existent.
A rather personal attack there Happy which says more about you than it does me.
To answer your question – I don’t believe it has done me any harm. Apart from one speeding ticket I have never broken the law. I do no go around assaulting people, vandalising or causing damage. I have never fiddled or overclaimed expenses.
I have a measured respect for the police.
It is not for me do say but I would think my family, friends and aquantainces would say I reasonably decent sort of chap and at the end of the day it is only their view that concerns me – certainly not the view of someone who does not know me, has never met me and never will meet me and can’t even make comments under their own name.
if we are going to improve our every day lives then abusing people over their race gender or sexual orientation can never be part of a positive outcome but treating people with respect and how you would like to be treated is.
Bob – absolutely agree with you 100% and would you kindly point out, without quoting out of context, where I have said such abuse is acceptable?
I refer you back to my original post where I said it is the "context" in which the wort is used that is pertinent not the word itself.
I could easily make a word up which would mean nothing to anybody, but if I used it with an intent to be offensive it would be no less worse than using the offensive word you mention in a racist or insulting way.
The BBC sacked Carol Thatcher for refering to somebody as a gollywog so it seems hypocritical of them not to dismiss this person who has called somebody a Paki…..presumably because they think it will effect this show and their ratings.
My own view is neither be considered for dismissal and this country is becoming even more racist due to the problems and publicity it causes.
QUOTE A rather personal attack there Happy which says more about you than it does me.
PAUL OIn an earlier post I said I was offended at being called a Paki.
Happy
In your earlier post you did not explain why you are offended. Could you explain why that is so that I/we can better understand your viewpoint.
Sorry Happy but Paul didn’t call you anything in his posts.
Isn’t this kind of confusion and blurring an ironic and perfect example of what the ‘just a word’ argument leads to though?
I tend to agree with Swallowcottage that nothing good ever comes out of the surrounding publicity from these kind of stories but I am still saddened that we haven’t reached consensus that the language of racism is something that we all reject just as much as we accept saying please thank you,sorry excuse me and thank you to make the daily wheels of society go around. More than that I don’t think we really need or should expect.
As for this thread being a ‘bit bloody dreary’ I disagree and summarise ( good thing if you can do it
) the themes as follows:-Media trouble making by dragging out a story.
-The term Paki is a word just the same as Kiwi or Pom it depends on the context it is used.
-BBC and it politically correct agenda.
– Freedom of Speech
-Ethnic minorities using racist language about themselves
-Treating people with respect
-Police favouring Asian victims over white ones
-Will people of different colours ( sic) ever get on
-Forgiveness of crime
-Feral Youth and collective social responsibility
– Self respect as the cornerstone of upbringing
– What is the role of the government in this?Nothing particularly dreary by any standards there.
In an earlier post I said I was offended at being called a Paki. I notice that you have cleverly swerved giving a reply or an apology to me.
Sorry "Happy" I hadn’t realised that was a serious post you were making – it was so incredulous I assumed it to be a sarcastic comment.
As I have not called you that name, indeed I have never even used that word in this forum or even actually called anybody that name at any time – I don’t see what I have to apologse for.
If you look carefully at all my postings in this thread I think you will find I have gone out of my way to not use the actual word for the very reason it can offend some people. I haven’t checked back but if I had mentioned it, it was only by accident
Are you expecting people to apologise for something they have not said?
If you really are offended by what I have written and it offends you that much there is a "report abuse" facility available.
If you lived in Bradford, for instance, I wonder if you would be so vocifirous.
As it happens I used to spend two or three days a week over several year working in Bradford and to the best of my knowlege I never offended or upset anyone whilst I wass there and I have never held back in saying what I think.
If I posted on here that I thought it was OK to call people C..ts and some one said they were offended by that, I would apologies to them immediately.
Is that not hypocritical? If you honestly believe it is correct to say something, why then apologise for saying it?
So Marble it sounds like that you like me are saddened that we still need to debate this because by now everyone should have realised that mutual respect for each other means that the use of racist ( and sexist and homophobic) terms is not the way to behave?
Downgrading terms of abuse to ‘just a word’ may be intellectually satisfying for some but in reality it sets things back and reopens cans of worms marked unnecessary and downright harmful as Happy’s posts have demonstrated.
Rights and Freedoms come with responsibilities.Are they saying I cannot call my Welsh friend a "taffy ba$tard" and he cannot call me a "Sassanach tw@t" even though we say it jokingly and with affection?
Should we no longer call the French "Frogs", should the Australians no longer call us "Poms"? Just in case somebody is offended by it?
Just another example of the parlous depths this country has reached – political correctness is like a cancer that is destroying our society.Forgot to correct you here Paul,the Welsh word for the English is Sais tw@t not Sassenach tw@t which of course is Scottish. You will hear both frequently used in Afghanistan at present where the British army are fighting .
If anything at all has been achieved at least I have managed to get 2 or 3 less ‘gristly’ posts out of you Marble
So Marble it sounds like that you like me are saddened that we still need to debate this because by now everyone should have realised that mutual respect for each other means that the use of racist ( and sexist and homophobic) terms is not the way to behave
.. that all depends on the country you live in, doesn’t it and to which standard of moral code you adhere to?
In some countries homosexuality carries the death penalty, women aren’t allowed to work or go to school and racism is enshrined in the law. By judging such countries as unacceptable or inhumane is racist itself, is it not?
We shouldn’t try and judge other people by our own standards, I’d rather keep my views to myself, rather than pretend to be offended by an out of fashion remark.
You do indeed cease to exist.Unpleasant and heavy handed.
Have an opinion or don’t but respect other peoples.
) the themes as follows:
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