August 24, 2007 at 19:43 #4927lollys mateMember
- Total Posts 625
Just heard that emigration in the U.K. has hit an all time high, and is predicted to get even higher.
Personally I can see why.
But I am interested in your views.
As you are probably aware, I am of the belief that this country is in a terminal decline.
Blood on our streets, no value of life for people of a certain race, yob culture, a knife culture that seems to me, to be a part of our new culture, a loss of our identity, (britishness), freedom of speach, cameras that are only on our streets to fine you, rather than "keep you safe", council tax to bleed you dry only to see it given to the low life scum that dont want to, or dont need to work but always have the money for 20 Bensons and a lottery ticket, haveing to get a cab home from your local pub on a sunday night because you have been mugged (attempted), but because I warned the little sh1t I would knock him out, and then knocked him out, as we agreed, I get in trouble!
Its another rant, I know. But I have I lost the plot? Or do any of you feel the same?
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!August 24, 2007 at 20:02 #112435dave jayMember
- Total Posts 3386
I think it all depends where you live LM .. there are a few Poles and Eastern European around here .. but they seem to be more interested in ripping each other off than interferring with the local populus.
I do think though that the political system in this country is a joke and unless the people wise up and start making the politicians a bit more jumpy, with unpredictable voting patterns and electing folk dressed up as chickens etc. then nothing will change, because things are very cosy for these people at the minute.August 24, 2007 at 20:39 #112438Seven TowersParticipant
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The figures that have been bandied about this week need to be treated with extreme caution, of the 385k people who are supposed to have emigrated only 200k were British, the rest were non-British people "going back where they came from," which from some of your previous posts you’d wholeheartedly applaud. Of the 574k immigrants coming into Britain, 91k were British people who had emigrated but had decided to come back for whatever reason.
My take on it is that people spend their whole lives reading the Daily Mail, decide the country is a doghole, move somewhere else but are so insular and parochial (due to spending their lives reading the Mail,) that they decide Britain isn’t so bad after all and come back. Of the 200k who emigrated last year it’ll be a safe bet that a large proportion will come back.
As for the reasons why people leave, we are bombarded with 24hr negativity in the media, but the stark fact of the matter is that unless you are poor, male, aged under 21 and live in a crap area of a big city, the chances of your picture being set up in the street with wreaths round it is mercifully/thankfully slim.
I feel young people and the poor are unfairly pilloried in the media, they are more likely to commit crime sure,but they are also disproportionately likely to be the victims of crime. Solutions to the problem seem to be thin on the ground. If you emigrate you show that you are not as in love with the country as you claim to be. Would Churchill or Nelson solve the nations current problems by emigrating? No way. Neither will I.
We have become weak, and utterly devolve ourselves of our responsibilities, we have no self respect or respect for others, we have become selfish, petty and litigious. We complain about the nanny state but call the council about the way the neighbours park their cars to get them to sort it out. We need some backbone and some gumption but we also need backup.
I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty but I’m sure the campaigners against the death penalty in the 60’s didn’t want the alternative to be 8, 10, 12 years in prison before being released back into society and neither do I. People need to be punished for doing wrong whether they be children or adults, corporal and capital punishment are way out of vogue at the moment but short prison terms or ASBO’s are not sufficient and are not a deterrent. Any other suggestions? Community work is a good idea and puts back into society but most people don’t bother to turn up…
I’ve worn myself out now – it’s someone else’s turn for a rant! Let it all out!August 25, 2007 at 00:38 #112452graysonscolumnParticipant
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A tour de force response from Seven Towers there – I can only really agree with every aspect of it, though I know the progenitor of this thread sadly will not.
I would further add that the country needs to hold its collective nerve. The admittedly high-profile incidents in the news this week are not to be dismissed lightly, of course, but collectively they still fall some way short of the grim projections of death, devastation, sex and horror on every street corner that the Mail would have the world believe exist.
Fear breeds fear, and the fear of imagined crime / wrongdoing is at least as corrosive and destructive as the fear of real crime, if not more so. Do not live in fear, therefore, and do not necessarily assume that fear courses through the veins of all those around you. This mad, quirky, baffling and occasionally brutal country is still, for the far, far greater part, safe and yours to enjoy.
….and if I can still say that despite living a stone’s throw from one of this week’s high profile, TV-covered shooting incidents, it’s ought not be beyond the capabilities of anybody.
The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.August 25, 2007 at 00:54 #112454Maxilon 5Member
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I live a quiet existence in a flat based in a small prosperous town with it’s own racecourse. In many ways, it’s a template of where you would like to live; a snapshot of Olde England.
For three years, the flat above contained various young locals. As white and British as fish and chips, warm beer and old maids on bicycles travelling to the farmers market.
My neighbours and I endured a living hell at weekends. Our neighbours appeared to have no consideration for anyone but themselves. They were brutish, anti-social, narcissistic and abusive.
On two occasions, I ended up in very dangerous situations with beefy, angry, drunken young British men on my doorstep after I asked them to turn down their music at four on a Saturday morning.
Friends tell me I took a risk, but after two hours of high decibel Rap music and the sounds of other people’s parties when you’re trying to get some kip, you lose the will to live anyway.
Eventually, they moved on and the flat was taken by a Polish couple who have proved to be nothing but an absolute pleasure. They are quiet, friendly, hard working, peaceful and community spirited.
Recently, they came downstairs to see whether I was being burgled as they had heard loud noises in my flat. Imagine their relief when they discovered it was only me remonstrating with items of furniture after Brian Meehan’s Day By Day was caught on the line at Kempton at a massive price!
What better neighbours can you get? They’re lovely people.
Xenophobia is an illness, lolly’s, in my opinion. It’s also an illness which blinds the afflicted to the obvious. Most of the people I actively detest are as British as HP sauce and I’m sure if you think about it, it wasn’t that much fun living here before the influx anyway. The transport situation and the upcoming Climatequake are far more pressing anxieties than immigration.
Imo of course.August 25, 2007 at 02:31 #112455GrasshopperParticipant
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Max, if there has been a better post in this here Lounge in 2007, then I’ve yet to come across it.
Outstanding work, and it pretty much mirrors my own point of view 100%.
Cormack………..give this man a Blue Peter badge (or summat) pronto.
PS. Best give lollys mate one too…….in case he knocks you clean out.August 25, 2007 at 03:20 #112458Kingston TownMember
- Total Posts 1049
So overall is still quite safe for me to come home?
Here we go, these are from Grassy…. one for Lolly
… and a rare gold one for Max…
and are you all still collecting the silver bottle tops?August 25, 2007 at 11:25 #112465insomniacParticipant
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What’s wrong with the Daily Mail ?
Politically it expresses the views of a large proportion of the electorate. Or aren’t those views supposed to be aired ?August 25, 2007 at 12:46 #112474MeshaheerMember
- Total Posts 486
Insomniac: (said in whispered tones) the Daily Mail is right wing and therefore it must be wrong in its views. Funny how copies seem to fly off most shelves round here though.August 25, 2007 at 14:21 #112477Seven TowersParticipant
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My problem with the Daily Mail can be encapsulated by a quote attributed to it’s editor Paul Dacre when he said "the perfect Mail article is one where the reader ends up hating someone or something by the end of it." This is what they do, they distort and exagerrate the day’s events to suit the prejudices of their readers, (which is what makes populism so popular,) make them fearful, add a dash of hatred and voila a country of terrified vengeful people looking for someone to get their own back on or blame whoever it is, whether they have done anything wrong or not.
An example is this weeks headlines about the emigration rates cited above, the Mail ignored the fact that immigration was down, they ignored the fact that nearly half of those emigrating were foreign, the readers finished reading the article (if indeed they bothered reading all of it,) with the impression that the only thing for them to do is to emigrate with everyone else lest they get murdered in a South London teenage gang feud (when they live in Minehead and 70 years old.)
There is nothing wrong with right wing politics or any type of politics as long as it is based on the facts, let people know the truth and let them decide for themselves, but with a partisan political system and a partisan media it is very difficult and a lot of people don’t have the inclination or the opportunity to sort the wheat from the chaff unless they make an effort to diversify their sources of information.August 25, 2007 at 14:35 #112480insomniacParticipant
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A good reply seven towers and Paul Dacre’s quote is indeed an appalling statement. But the Daily Mail is not alone in stressing certain aspects of reports / statistics in order to put across their preferred view as you recognise. All papers (even – perhaps especially The Independent ) are partisan. I don’t believe the Daily Mail is any worse than some of the others.
I would hope that most people who read this paper recognise the innate bias of the paper and its journos and moderate their opinion accordingly – I do when I read it (and, if time, the Telegraph, Times, Guardian Observer, Spectator, etc). But many of the opinions expressed in the Mail (not just the exaggerated anti-immigration articles and the like) deserve an airing in the mainstream media; they won’t get them in the Independent / Guardian / Sun/ Mirror / Star / BBC .August 25, 2007 at 15:16 #112488dave jayMember
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I buy a variety of news papers and I don’t think that they actually hold that much sway with the population generally. Take The Sun for example, they threw their lot in with the SNP at the last election and yet the SNP are as pro-euro as the liberals.
The do-gooders are ruining this country if anyone is .. and this sort of left of centre fascism that stiffles any proper debate about things that are important like immigration, crime and poverty.
Tories and Labour are out of the same bottle .. they’re both post office shutters and pro-privatisation of things that should be owned by the tax payer. Things that should be owned by the tax payer because we paid for it.August 25, 2007 at 19:03 #112503steveh31Participant
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As someone who works for the government I can tell you they will do anything for publicity and anything to make themselves look good and it doesnt matter at whose expenseAugust 25, 2007 at 22:54 #112520MeshaheerMember
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The BBC is the most awfully biased institution, but unlike bias in newspapers, we all have to pay for it (unless you choose not to have a TV of course).
The Mail irritates me for reasons owing to its sensationalist attitude and its general tabloid journalism, so I read the Torygraph for my Rightist viewpoints instead
I find this country small and far too overcrowded anyway, and I would happily bugger off along with all the other emigrants if I had the chance…August 26, 2007 at 12:10 #112546Maxilon 5Member
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Cheers Grasshopper and KT. Praise indeed – but they’d never print it in the Mail.
It’s no wonder people are wound up after Wednesday’s front page, which the original post refers to. They must have resurrected the editor of the Volkischer Beobachter to create it.
Let’s look at the front page itself. I’m not surprised that a frothing lolly’s mate reached for the keyboard.
The page is split into two. On the right as you look (The Hand of God) you see an idealised British family. There is beautiful Mum, handsome Dad and a pair of good looking children at their feet. Implicit is the smell of roast beef in the kitchen, Marks and Spencers, the jars of honey about to be sold at the summer fete. The diligent children are taking a break from their homework. They have slightly sad looks, as if they had collectively lost something precious.
They are the Emigrants.
On the left as you look, (the Devil’s Side), you see a photograph of a gaggle of swarthy Kosovan men hanging about a detention centre, smoking. They look like British Leyland strikers with their beards and anoraks. It is implied that they will be lusting after our generous benefits and saintly daughters within a day of arriving on the bus. Cleverly, they are photographed on a cloudy, dismal day.
These are the Immigrants.
The Nazis knew what they were doing with this clever Hearts and Minds stuff in the 30’s. Sadly, on a long enough timeline you end up with Treblinka.
Just Say No to the Daily Mail imo. And Mesh, you’d be back within six months like the rest of em.
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