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As a trainer you don’t even have to have a clue which horse is the best for a particular race. You just run 4,5 or even 8 of them in the same race and one of them will win anyway.
At least this is what racing has become over the past few years. It wasn’t like this in the 80s or in the 90s. Of course you can’t fault AP O’Brien and the Coolmore operation for breeding that many high class horses. Four of them finished in the top five today, but is this really what we want?
It even doesn’t matter which horse wins the race and there might be no hierarchy at all when it comes to most Group One races. But, that’s not a spectacle anymore, if a three race maiden wins the race in a canter after the other part of the team made sure that the only opponent would get boxed in.
Forever Together was next to Wild Illusion all of the way pretty much. Buick has just given an interview, saying he got a fair crack of the whip, and FT beat him to the far rail.
It was a terrible Oaks, but a fairly run race to my eyes.
Forever Together was next to Wild Illusion all of the way pretty much. Buick has just given an interview, saying he got a fair crack of the whip, and FT beat him to the far rail.
I think that if the “team” hadn’t boxed him in, he might have had the chance to get to the rails first.
Anyway, I didn’t back him and I’m not pocket talking, but it seem stop me that this MUST be Donnacha’s year.I think personally there’s more conspiracy there Ruby… Ryan must be thinking… Am I being had over here… Is Daddy making sure son is always on the right one?
The same is going to happen to Saxon tomorrow from stall 1, where WI was today Ruby. He’ll be on the rail most likely, with a horse or two on his outside.
“It even doesn’t matter which horse wins the race…”
You’re possibly onto something there; I noticed that Aidan was on the phone instead of watching the end of the race, certainly giving the impression that he was just glad that one of his team won.
If you want to know where she goes next, YOU HAVE TO ASK THE LADS.
In fact, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO ASK THE LADS!!!!
Wild Illusion was not “boxed in”, he was just beaten to the rail by a horse going better than she was and (importantly as far as that goes) drawn better. ie Wild Illusion was drawn 1 and therefore always likely another horse would get the stands rail first. Not that the rail position made the difference between winning and losing anyway. I backed Wild Illusion and she was just beaten by a better filly on the day. If there was “team tactics” it wasn’t for Forever Together’s benefit it was Bye Bye Baby; allowing her a lead and I’d have been a little uncomfortable had she won.
I do agree that team Coolmore having so many top (Galileo) horses in Group 1 races does very little to attract people to our sport. Charlie Appleby might have had the “favourite” today, but adding SP prices up made AOB the 8/13 fav to have the winner. Technically, when Coolmore have so many of the good horses am glad they run against each other – making a competitive race of it. However, if more owners and trainers had those horses it would add to the spectacle. AOB is undoubtedly a top trainer, but only need to look at how many Galileo horses Ballydoyle have compared to everyone else to see a massive reason for their dominence. Once Galileo retires it may be very different. Coolmore didn’t stand Northern Dancer, but Ballydoyle/Sangster had the money to dominate his stock (at least before Sheikh Mo and Co came along). Northern Dancer was replaced immediately by Coolmore’s Saddlers Wells, who was in turn replaced by Galileo. However, they’re struggling to find a dominent replacement and their wonder-sire can’t have many more years. Added to that, many of their broodmares already have plenty of Galileo/Saddlers Wells/Northern Dancer blood close up in their pedigrees, so yet more inbreeding with Galileo as the sire’s-sire is far from ideal either. Coolmore’s total dominence may not last many more years.
Value Is EverythingThis thread, is total garbage.
Wild illusion couldnt have won regardless of where she was half way through the race.
Not pocket talking, but your talking something….
And gladiateur, do you not think thats a positive that he doesnt favour one and that hes happy if any win? Dont know how thats a negative.
Why wouldnt he run the numbers he does, he doesnt just win, his “pace makers” are finishing 2nds and 3rds week in week out, is that all down to team tactics aswell? Or just that he has so many horses capable of running massive races at the top level?
I’ve seen some fairly stupid threads on a variety of forums covering a variety of sports, and this one is right up there with most stupid I’ve read
I’ve seen some fairly stupid threads on a variety of forums covering a variety of sports, and this one is right up there with most stupid I’ve read
Why is that stupid wexfordman? It’s just an opinion and also a fact. So why do you call it stupid?
Team tactics are no good for any sport, unless it’s a team sport. Horse Racing is a individual sport and as long as there is no coupling of the same-owned horses like in France, all horses should run on their merits. I don’t think this happens when team tactics come into play.But there is no other opinion I could expect from you anyway. What year is it in Ireland anyway?
1618 or a bit later???
I think personally there’s more conspiracy there Ruby… Ryan must be thinking… Am I being had over here… Is Daddy making sure son is always on the right one?
The impression I got from Aidan’s RUK interview was that they knew full well what they were putting Donnacha on.
“And gladiateur, do you not think thats a positive that he doesnt favour one and that hes happy if any win? Dont know how thats a negative.”
I don’t recall saying that it was a negative; merely that the statement made in the opening post, that Coolmore just throw as many darts at the board as they can in the hope that one will stick, may have some validity.I think personally there’s more conspiracy there Ruby… Ryan must be thinking… Am I being had over here… Is Daddy making sure son is always on the right one?
It’s a team game. If he wants to keep the ride on Saxon Warrior in the Derby, he’ll live with it
Wouldn’t have any issue with the “boxing” of Wild Illusion, the race switching to the near rail as they entered the straight makes that not applicable in my book. The Godolphin horse not good enough on the day, and connections justified in having no complaints imo.
Can’t say the same about Ryan Moore though. Looks to me like he’s making a beeline for the near rail as they come into the straight, but corrects considerably back to his left, to let the winner through on his inner. I dont see a jockey as driven as Moore doing that for any other horse in a Group 1, but a Ballydoyle one.
At no stage did the cool more runners box in any other horse in that race. Wild illusion and forever together were side by side from the start of the race until the final bend. Both had perfectly clear runs and forever together won and deservingly so
I lost a bit of interest in the race today as it was dominated by Coolmore and the Tabor, Smith, Magnier ownership who had interest in 5 out of the 9 runners.
With the amount of decent Ballydoyle horses in the same ownership it must be on the cards that one day The Oaks and even The Derby could be run solely with horses owned by the magic triangle
No team tactics required.
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
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