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Off Course bookmakers contributed £109.2 million to the levy as compared with £6.9 million from the exchanges.
Jeezus you’d nearly swear it was coming out of their own pockets. Hopefully they’ll get by with the 900 odd million (gross) thats not being given back!
If you take out the ¨one off¨ high roller money, the levy yield this year is about 11 million lower than it was 5 years ago. Offcourse bookmaker cash yield is almost static, internet yield and oncourse yield is down. The levy board dont sound overly confident of a roll over either.
Exchange yield is up 13% and will continue to grow as more and punters refuse to be ripped off by the offcourse mob.
Paul Roy is starting to sound like what he is, a numbers man from the city who really has no idea of what the core racing customer wants. If he tries to stitch up exchange punters in the same manner the offcourse industry has SP punters (the lifeblood of his levy) hope he’s familiar with Malta.
As Ricky says ,¨The Levy will die because the bookies will kill it¨
How much levy did these big winners pay before BF? How much would they pay if they switched their betting to bookies? How much more would they pay in levy via BF if race planning wasn’t geared around bookies?
Is the green eyed monster rearing its ugly head TDK? Do you want a handful of decent judges to fund the show rather than opinionless corporations making hundreds of millions a year? Do you want a tax on winners?
I think anyone who is making a lot of money out of the sport should make a contribution that is fair, Glenn – can’t see what is unreasonable about that.
I would also add that there are plenty of "opinionless" punters out there who are also making large sums of money out of the sport – tax, risk and levy free – be it via bots or arbs or whatever.
This is semantics TDK. Punters pay tax and levy. Betting organisations collect it from them and pass it on.
I don’t know of any punter that bets risk free or tax free or levy free, let alone all three.
I wouldnt be suprised at this story…..
There was 4 old cab drivers my dad knows who were making a killing off the cartoon racing,they would sit there all day have 2 bets and were making money at it!!! did they have a system? I dont know!!!!
But they were having £20 ew bets on cartoon racing and making money-NOW THEY CANT HAVE A BET WITH WILLIAM HILL at this shop.
Bookies seem to want it all.
I don’t know of any punter that bets risk free or tax free .
So you don’t know any arb players then?
Bar bookies going to the wall, I fail to see much risk attached to this activity and the profits are of course, tax free.
Genuine question – do you think Betfair paying around 4 million in the overall context of 116 million levy sounds "about right"?
No such thing as an arb as you can’t bet both sides simultaneously. Therefore there is risk, unless No Morals are offering to void bets when you’ve failed to offlaod them on BF or when there’s a non-runner in a 16 runner handicap. That’s before we go into bookies welshing, going bust etc
As far as BF goes, I think I quote the Basingstoke Bandit when I say it is a niche product as its profits testify. It pays the same proportion of those profits to the levy as the bookies do. It gets its reputation for being big from its turnover figures (double counted and inflated by two way traders). What its turnover figures show is that betting is very demand elastic. So why has racing PLC gone down the road of assuming punters are price insensitive mugs and hiking prices?
Interesting to see what happens if and when Betfair float. I’m sure their investors might be tempted to think they are in the wrong game, when for all their innovation and investment, they make less on Racing than a Ladbrokes high roller loses in a bad week….
Fair enough TDK.
I’d imagine there isnt huge profit from traders and arbers on the exchanges, which is probably a significant source of their business. I also suspect they have a lot of low level 5% players, not a huge source of profit either. My guess is they have a number of 2% high rollers (offcourse bookmakers?) who contribute the majority of their income on UK racing, which is why they look after them so well.
I think its reasonable to assume their books are audited correctly and the levy paid is an accurate reflection of their gross profit.
Yes – I wasnt suggested for a second it wasn’t properly audited CR. I just expected the figure to be considerably higher.
folks , lets not forget that this thread was started because of a stupid and greedy act by one of the major bookies , just because they pay more levy (because thay have to ) does not mean we should bet with them
As for level playing fields , if you are a punter you will only find that on Betfair , so lets not cry to hard for corals or willie hill , they are well run corporations making loads of money and good luck to them , thay have been and continue to run rings around racing’s rulers , thay are a lot smarter , streetwise and never miss a commercial opportunity , and fair dues they are right while they can
One day Rcing will have people running it that wont be city focussed and actually appreciate what is happening , until then we can only hope Punters find better value betting with exchanges
have fun
Ricky
I don’t have a particular problem with the off-course firms refusing/knocking-back bets or closing the accounts of winning punters, it is simply best practice to weed out those parts of a business that return a loss. What is intensely annoying, does them no credit at all and casts serious doubt on their general integrity is the reticence they show to publically admit it; therefore Seagull’s tale should be given as much publicity as possible.
Guff from a bookmaker’s rep such as ‘the right people are backing this’ or ‘the shrewd money was on early’ do have the hollowest of rings.
As for level playing fields , if you are a punter you will only find that on Betfair
I think all the recent corruption cases have shown, if nothing else, that some betfair users are more equal than others.
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Dreadful to see a 63 year old bloke barred from a few £5 bets a day. I would have no hesitation in saying that they wouldn’t stop this bloke coming in and putting £5 through the roulette every day but why are they making such a fuss over a small amount when they are offering up to £25 free bets for new customers it’s a bloody joke.
Tony25
No word of an apologie then?
To all,
The basic reason my friend was barred twice now from Larrys is basically down to the area manageress.Apparently those that continually win (or cause trouble by drug dealing etc)are secretly photographed by the in shop CCTV and if the shop staff know of the customers name and that and the photograph is circulated among the other shops within the group in the local area.
(When former legal eagle Wit was a regular member of this site he may have been able to inform us of the possible breach of customers privacy.)
This lady took the decison to bar Mark from the Hove shop as she was doing holiday cover and knew him and he had won every day sine she took over holiday cover on 7th July.
He had a bloody nerve to win £125.00 this Tuesday which was the final bet!
I told my friend ages ago to buy a lap top and join the exchanges but as Mark told me why should he have had to do this when he was perfectly happy and a long time customer with Ladbrokes.
I know my friend is winning quite a lot by using a simple little method that I still think will fail, but anyone that is up month after month as he has been this year (whilst I have been following every bets) would not last long betting on any telephone account so that idea was a non starter.
The reason Mark told me he cannot give his bets to someone else to stake on his behalf is he thinks that if for example he has lost several hundred in a day that he would be able to stake larger sums on the next race his thinking is that the shop staff know him and will allow him further large bets.
And also if you were getting on in years hand over over a thousand pound at times to someone you hardly know in a betting shop?
Both reasons make sense to me.
He has now moved directly across George Street in Hove to Mr Hills shop whilst waiting for Virgin to install a broadband connection.
£45.00 from them yesterdayHe has sent a letter to the cowards in Harrow and any reply will be posted here as long as he allows it.
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