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"Best O’Brien’s trained", no way!
To be fair, AOB usually does better in the Summer than Autumn and even got going earlier in 2012 than recent years. According to sportinglife.com Camelot’s St Leger came in a 41 runner period with just 1 winner (only a 2.4% strike rate).
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/prof … a-p-obrien
Where as AOB’s 2012 season over all strike rate is 18%. So all may not have been well at the time. Despite the yard now seemingly in better form it’s possible the horse hasn’t recovered from running while not at his best. So there are possible excuses.
Why didn’t we see Camelot between the Irish Derby and St Leger? A break of 10 weeks is not the usual Coolmore way with their best horses. Was there a problem?
However, even though Camelot won the Irish Derby, compared to the English version it was also a disappointing performance. Carrying his head high and not beating Born To Sea with the ease expected. It wasn’t that much softer than what he encountered in the Guineas. May be there’s a temperament issue, is by Montjeu after all. It’s now been three races on the trot where Camelot has not run to form, let alone improved. So after starting 2012 so well, the four year old will have something to prove in 2013.
Value Is EverythingMaiden, RP Trophy, Guineas and Derby winner – how many horses have achieved that and not been at least very good? And second in the Leger and won an Irish Derby on nasty ground? Lets not forget until a few years ago many Derby winners never performed well again afterwards.
The Frankel campaign has been safe, safe, safe – and good luck to them they have nurtured an undefeated champion perfectly. They are not gamblers.
The Camelot campaign has been more risky – and good luck to them they showed him off to their home crowd despite the ground, they had a go at the Triple Crown and came an honourable second. The owners are gamblers.
It’s not a matter of one being the right way and the other a bad campaign; both are right for what the owners want to achieve. And they work together on some ventures, including the one that spawned Frankel, so are hardly going to have a dig at each other.
I’m sure neither of the owners or trainers give a tinkers t*ss what you or I think about it anyway!
The Frankel campaign has been safe, safe, safe – and good luck to them they have nurtured an undefeated champion perfectly. They are not gamblers.
The Camelot campaign has been more risky – and good luck to them they showed him off to their home crowd despite the ground, they had a go at the Triple Crown and came an honourable second. The owners are gamblers.
Here we go again. "Safe, safe, safe".An alternative way of looking at it is:
Coolmore knew they had a "top class" racehorse. We got the usual spin from team Ballydoyle, "
He’s the best I’ve trained
, can you hear me breeders? I said he’s the best I’ve ever trained"!
Ye, right. They knew he wasn’t anywhere near the class of Frankel. The same Frankel who had his campaign mapped out, anyone who wanted to take him on, could take him on. There for the taking. ie "Come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough". Of course there weren’t many takers, so many alternative Group 1’s these days, connections can swerve the very best horses.Coolmore knew had they kept Camelot to middle-distances (like most Derby winners) there’d be an outcry if his campaign didn’t include taking on Frankel at York. Therefore, by going for the St Leger (for which he started long odds-on, ie much the most likely winner) Coolmore went the SAFE route. Afterwards, they no longer had an unbeaten colt, so could no longer fool people in to thinking he’s a superhorse. Now they needed to show some winning form in a top class race…
They kept the Arc option open. When Danedream and Nathaniel came out they saw their chance. In all probability the race would not take as much winning as usual and made a calculated decision (not a "gamble" at all). Anyone else think there seemed too many excuses to be true in post race interviews? Cut leg, shoe came off, long campaign etc etc etc. Damage limitation?
Value Is EverythingSteve – ‘Matt Damon lookalike’. Surely not?????
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/mattobrien.jpg
Now listen now Cormack, I look a lot more like Matt Damon than I do that Toby McGuire fellow that was put up here before…
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Of course Coolmore know Camelot isn’t Frankels class, as does everyone else. And Frankels a year older. So why would they even try take him on with Camelot, indeed why would they want to he is a walking advert for their super-sire.
Hammy were what you say true racing would come to an end since nobody would take on any challenge.
As the man said Having the best horse in the world and the best jockey(Joseph) in the world in the same yard is too big of a coincidence.
If you’re going to slag the man off, at least have the decency to spell his name correctly!
The Frankel campaign has been safe, safe, safe – and good luck to them they have nurtured an undefeated champion perfectly. They are not gamblers.
The Camelot campaign has been more risky – and good luck to them they showed him off to their home crowd despite the ground, they had a go at the Triple Crown and came an honourable second. The owners are gamblers.
Here we go again. "Safe, safe, safe".An alternative way of looking at it is:
Coolmore knew they had a "top class" racehorse. We got the usual spin from team Ballydoyle, "
He’s the best I’ve trained
, can you hear me breeders? I said he’s the best I’ve ever trained"!
Ye, right. They knew he wasn’t anywhere near the class of Frankel. The same Frankel who had his campaign mapped out, anyone who wanted to take him on, could take him on. There for the taking. ie "Come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough". Of course there weren’t many takers, so many alternative Group 1’s these days, connections can swerve the very best horses.Coolmore knew had they kept Camelot to middle-distances (like most Derby winners) there’d be an outcry if his campaign didn’t include taking on Frankel at York. Therefore, by going for the St Leger (for which he started long odds-on, ie much the most likely winner) Coolmore went the SAFE route. Afterwards, they no longer had an unbeaten colt, so could no longer fool people in to thinking he’s a superhorse. Now they needed to show some winning form in a top class race…
They kept the Arc option open. When Danedream and Nathaniel came out they saw their chance. In all probability the race would not take as much winning as usual and made a calculated decision (not a "gamble" at all). Anyone else think there seemed too many excuses to be true in post race interviews? Cut leg, shoe came off, long campaign etc etc etc. Damage limitation?
An absolutely spot on summary GT.
AOB has been simply over hyping the horse so as to icrease his appeal as a breeding proposition, and thereby doing his paymasters bidding.
That said I do hope that he has a great 4 year old career as he has beaten little of note so far.While Camelot may not be as good as the hype, he is certainly the better than any other 3yo colt in UK and Ireland over a range of 8f-12f this season.
Running in the Irish Derby was probably a huge mistake. While he had enough class to win it, the experience was very negative in the development of him as a racehorse. If Mr O’Brien can get the horse back from that psychologically damaging event and make him competitive over 10-12f next season, he deserves great credit.Agreed EF,
Camelot is the best 3 year old. Or at least has the best 3 year old form shown so far. It’s been interesting how Imperial Monarch has been a late withdral from many "Camelot" races… Derby (don’t I know it!), Irish Derby, St leger and now Arc. Ballydoyle have been very careful not to allow their second string the opportunity of taking on the first.Although Imperial Monarch’s Grand Prix De Paris form is not as good as Camelot’s English Derby, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the former improves past the latter.
Value Is EverythingIf Mr O’Brien can get the horse back from that psychologically damaging event and make him competitive over 10-12f next season, he deserves great credit.
Very generous sentiment, given that they urinated on their own chips with the horse this year. Does it really warrant a round of applause for simply leaving it at the salt with next years portion of pommes frites?
Hold the Vinegar please Mr Chippie!!
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
If Frankel had experimented with other distances this season, perhaps Excelebration would be have gone unbeaten in the mile division and dominated the scene. I guess AOB was subtly lamenting what might have been with his comment there.
It would have been more convenient for him for an outside horse to be dominating the 1m 2f/1m 4f division. It would be no big loss given that his So You Think retired injured and St Nicholas Abbey trundled into mediocrity. Excelebration meanwhile has been fit and significantly above average, but forced to just pick up whatever scraps Frankel hasn’t been thrown.
I cannot help thinking that Aidan has lost his way since Joseph emerged as his main interest.After many group one races in the last two years Aidan’s comments are about what Joseph said or how Joseph rode.Horses seem to be entered in the big races to enable Joseph to ride them.They don’t seem to be prepared for specific races.St Nicholas ran in almost every available group race without any specific agenda.If you follow his career since the BC he has progressively gone down hill,same applys to So You Think and Camelot.Following the races we are informed what Joseph, a teenager,new to the game thinks.Joseph said this and Joseph said that,Joseph eased up on ST. NIcholas Abbey while Camelot got a very hard race etc etc etc in the Arc.I much prefer Aidan saying what Frankie thought not what the young lad thought.Joseph has not delivered one victory in a group one race that could be attributed to brilliant riding,in fact he has been a silent partner in most Group One races this year.Reflect back to Fallon on Dylan Thomas or Murtagh’s multiple winners for Ballydoyle at Ascot in the past and the contrast is saddening from Ballydoyle’s point of view.I personally long for the good old days at Ballydoyle when they employed a world class jockey and won the big races.Memories of Giants Causeway remind me of the importance of classic jockeys needed to win great races.I know Ballydoyle won the 3yo races but that was about all they won,there was one or two exceptions which more or less prove what I am saying. And I don’t consider this year to be a success despite winning the classics since it is agreed that the 3yo crop were not worth a dam.Maybe next year they will return to racing for the horses and not for the jockey.Please do not see this post as a criticism of the Ballydoyle riding team.I realise that their No.1 jockey is only a boy and has nothing like the experiencd of Kinane or Murtagh or Fallon.But Barzalona who last year won the Derby with a brilliant ride and this year the St.Leger is also only a boy and the difference is startling.So Aidan get back to horse training and let mammy train the children.
I cannot help thinking that Aidan has lost his way since Joseph emerged as his main interest.After many group one races in the last two years Aidan’s comments are about what Joseph said or how Joseph rode.Horses seem to be entered in the big races to enable Joseph to ride them.They don’t seem to be prepared for specific races.St Nicholas ran in almost every available group race without any specific agenda.If you follow his career since the BC he has progressively gone down hill,same applys to So You Think and Camelot.Following the races we are informed what Joseph, a teenager,new to the game thinks.Joseph said this and Joseph said that,Joseph eased up on ST. NIcholas Abbey while Camelot got a very hard race etc etc etc in the Arc.I much prefer Aidan saying what Frankie thought not what the young lad thought.Joseph has not delivered one victory in a group one race that could be attributed to brilliant riding,in fact he has been a silent partner in most Group One races this year.Reflect back to Fallon on Dylan Thomas or Murtagh’s multiple winners for Ballydoyle at Ascot in the past and the contrast is saddening from Ballydoyle’s point of view.I personally long for the good old days at Ballydoyle when they employed a world class jockey and won the big races.Memories of Giants Causeway remind me of the importance of classic jockeys needed to win great races.I know Ballydoyle won the 3yo races but that was about all they won,there was one or two exceptions which more or less prove what I am saying. And I don’t consider this year to be a success despite winning the classics since it is agreed that the 3yo crop were not worth a dam.Maybe next year they will return to racing for the horses and not for the jockey.Please do not see this post as a criticism of the Ballydoyle riding team.I realise that their No.1 jockey is only a boy and has nothing like the experiencd of Kinane or Murtagh or Fallon.But Barzalona who last year won the Derby with a brilliant ride and this year the St.Leger is also only a boy and the difference is startling.So Aidan get back to horse training and let mammy train the children.
Have to agree with you there. I think Joseph gets a lot of unjustified criticism, and he seems like a nice lad, and he puts in some good rides, but sometimes his lack of experience shows. To win the top races EVERYTHING has to be perfect – ground, fitness, tactics, luck and jockey.
…Joseph has not delivered one victory in a group one race that could be attributed to brilliant riding…
…not having the stamina for unparagraphed diatribes these days, but I got as far as this line and thought to point out that he did ride, I think, a terrific front running performance on Imperial Monarch in the Grand Prix de Paris, a difficult thing to do at Longchamp, and held on in a desperate finish from Last Train.
I didn’t think he had a clock in his head till that point, but he won me over a bit.
Aidan O’Brien seems increasingly neurotic over Camelot but I admire the 3 year old season they’ve given him, a true classic year. You don’t have to win them all…
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