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As I said earlier Paul:
When I placed my bet on Certify Paul it was indeed "all risks" and I knew the rules. So I don’t expect or call for any bookmaker to refund. Every punter knows a horse can get injured or die. So if unable to take part should loose my money. However, the only reason this horse is prevented from running is
doping
. It may be a "publicity stunt", but I’d prefer to think they might feel the integrity of the sport is in question and don’t want to be seen to profit from doping.
Refunds like this may not be "part of the rules", but neither is giving these steroids to horses "part of the rules". Indeed they are against the rules. I did not expect or call for bookmakers to refund my Certify bets, but am grateful they did. There is no rule 4 for other punters, the only ones to lose out are bookmakers. So surely Paul, there is nothing for you to "complain" about?…
Well may be one thing…
I’ve been lucky enough for Bookmakers to cancel my 25/1 and 12/1 bets – but what was supposedly only a partial saver laying Certify @ 8/1 on betfair remains. I feel bad for profiting.
Value Is EverythingBetting aside, what are the long term consequences for the horses under Al Zarooni’s care now that the yard has been shut down, a lot of them were just two year olds mostly unraced.
What does their future hold now? Will they be allowed to race again for another stable or will they be transferred across to Saeed Bin Suroor?Hopefully this dreadful smear on racings reputation has now been contained, those involved should hang their heads in shame for cheating on other hard working trainers, stable lads and lasses and the owners who pay fees to see their horses compete, whether in Group or lower class races, many of them may be wondering whether they might have been carrying home the cups that at present sit on Mahmood Al Zarooni’s mantlepiece.
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...In response to the earlier poster Sheikh Mo does have a bit of previous:
http://royaltyinthenews.com/sheikh-moha … rse-doping
I cannot help but think the obstinacy regarding the boycotting of Coolmore stallions which ultimately had a negative on the quality of animal they produced for racing, and thr pressure on the trainer to produce results may have led Godolphin to this sorry state.
Also if we were robbed of a Triple Crown winner because of cheating then that would be very sad indeed.
I must admit I was quite shocked when Encke spanked Camelot the way he did. There was little in his previous form to suggest he was capable of such a result.
Joseph O’Brien must have felt he played the perfect waiting game on Camelot, to reel in the leaders, only to be shocked when Encke just kept on going and covered the final furlong like he’d just joined in, none of the sort of fatigue you might expect from a three year old covering 1 mile six for the first time, in group one race.
Cast your minds even further back, and there was a little known horse called Dubai Millennium who was winning everything, destroying his opposition.
At the time I was quite astonished by the manner of his victories, here was a horse who would just keep on going. His Princess of Wales stakes win was seemingly breathtaking, posting incredible sectionals to break the heart of the french challenger, who dared to try and live with the Godolphin horse but was out on his feet at the end, while Dubai Millennium just kept galloping relentlessly forward.
Now however in light of what’s happened recently there’s the feel of Lance Armstrong or Marita Koch about those performances, you’re not sure what to believe. It’s also worth pointing out, that Dubawi aside he hasn’t really produced any progeny of note, despite the astronomical stud fee. Perhaps he wasn’t as good as we thought? Is it also a co-incidence that Dubai Millennium was to die quite young, rather like Flo-jo?
You read Tyler Hamilton’s "The secret race" and you get an interesting insight into the world of cheating. Like how when you’re clean eventually you reach a point of exhaustion and pain that you just can’t go beyond, but when you’re juiced, getting past that point is a piece of cake.
I suppose it is natural to speculate in such terms about all Godolphin horses with all trainers, but is it fair to do so?
Not sure, I have some reservations of doing so.
But with Ivanjica’s post about Sheikh Mo’s Endurance horse Tahhan being given stanozolol. May be it is fair to ask the question.
Sheikh Mo’s wife is on record as saying there’s a problem with doping amongst Endurance horses in the Middle-East. May be that has moved accross in to Racing.
Here’s a related article to Ivanjica’s piece.
http://royaltyinthenews.com/princess-ha … oping-case
Value Is EverythingDubai Millenium died of grass sickness I believe, and Sheikh Mohammed did put a lot of money into finding a cure for it [did anything come of it I wonder?], but I must admit to wondering about the St Leger. Then again, it is a race that has thrown up some strange results over the years.
I suppose it is natural to speculate in such terms about all Godolphin horses with all trainers, but is it fair to do so?
Not sure, I have some reservations of doing so.
But with Ivanjica’s post about Sheikh Mo’s Endurance horse Tahhan being given stanozolol. May be it is fair to ask the question.
Sheikh Mo’s wife is on record as saying there’s a problem with doping amongst Endurance horses in the Middle-East. May be that has moved accross in to Racing.
Here’s a related article to Ivanjica’s piece.
I think it is a very fair question to ask.
When asked if there were any plans to test SBS’s yard the BHA replied there weren’t, as they were separate stables under the control of separate trainers using separate licenses.
Now whilst that may be technically correct, they operate under the same "management", operating to the same guidelines and protocols – so an argument could be made that SBS’s stables should be tested as well.
Taking MAZ’s admission at face value the protocols have not worked in his yard so how do we know they have worked in the other yard as well?
It’s interesting that Sheik Mo has called for a lock-down and 100% testing in MAZ’s yard but not SBS’s.
Now his PR team are astute and not thick and they would surely realise that many do connect the two stables, so would it not be good PR for him to announce blanket testing across both stables to allay any concerns there may be?
I suppose it is natural to speculate in such terms about all Godolphin horses with all trainers, but is it fair to do so?
Not sure, I have some reservations of doing so.
But with Ivanjica’s post about Sheikh Mo’s Endurance horse Tahhan being given stanozolol. May be it is fair to ask the question.
Sheikh Mo’s wife is on record as saying there’s a problem with doping amongst Endurance horses in the Middle-East. May be that has moved accross in to Racing.
Here’s a related article to Ivanjica’s piece.
I think it is a very fair question to ask.
When asked if there were any plans to test SBS’s yard the BHA replied there weren’t, as they were separate stables under the control of separate trainers using separate licenses.
Now whilst that may be technically correct, they operate under the same "management", operating to the same guidelines and protocols – so an argument could be made that SBS’s stables should be tested as well.
Taking MAZ’s admission at face value the protocols have not worked in his yard so how do we know they have worked in the other yard as well?
It’s interesting that Sheik Mo has called for a lock-down and 100% testing in MAZ’s yard but not SBS’s.
Now his PR team are astute and not thick and they would surely realise that many do connect the two stables, so would it not be good PR for him to announce blanket testing across both stables to allay any concerns there may be?
MAZ has been in good form recently Paul, where as SBS the opposite; so doubt if there is anything wrong with the other stable. However, I agree, am surprised they are not also testing there; with same ownership. May be they don’t want it to look like a witch hunt. Whatever is said publicly, suspect testing SBS will start in the not too distant future, when this furore has died down.
Also agree, it would be good if Sheikh Mo asks for SBS to be tested.Value Is EverythingGo back to Rewilding. Aidan could never reconcile the talent of So You Think and the defeat by Rewilding.Next time he (Rewilding) ran he broke down and had to be destroyed.While So You Think went on to comprehensively defeat the Arc winner.Just did not make sense; was Rewildings yard into steroids even then? Will these issues be pursued at the inquiry?
Gingertipster you ask is it fair to do so? We are long past that point with Godolphin.Now we must ask what is best for the racing of horses in GB.Since Bin Suroor was warned about doping some years ago* it is criticasl that his yard be given a clean bill of health if Godolphin is not to continue under a cloud.
*http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resou … tem=086109 (Book of Music and Fairmile)
Go back to Rewilding. Aidan could never reconcile the talent of So You Think and the defeat by Rewilding.Next time he (Rewilding) ran he broke down and had to be destroyed.While So You Think went on to comprehensively defeat the Arc winner.Just did not make sense; was Rewildings yard into steroids even then? Will these issues be pursued at the inquiry?
On Timeform ratings So You Think and Rewilding weren’t far apart that day Andyod, which was why I backed the latter. AOB talks up all his horses and is surprised whenever they are beaten. Rewilding didn’t exactly "break down", he broke a leg. Unless it is a similar thing to American racing, where bute can mask the pain – so users don’t realise it’s hurting until too late… I can’t see the accident had anything to do with steroid abuse.
Value Is EverythingIf we are questioning whether all Godolphin horses were on these drugs out of competition – so had an unfair advantage…
May be we should ask ourselves if all Australian horses had an unfair advantage and whether they should be allowed to race in Britain?
It seems Stanozolol is
NOT
banned in Australia out of competition!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/super … 6627011132
Does that help explain things?
Value Is EverythingI don’t know if the vet checked the horse after he broke down.I am just speaking in light of present revelations about the few godolphine group one winners of recent times.I would be surprised of Rewilding,like So You Think, was capable of beating the Derby and Arc winner but that is just my opinion.
Incidentally Sheik Mohammond stated yesterday "I can assure the racing public that no horse will run from that yard this season until I have been absolutely assured by my team that the entire yard is completely clean" I would have thought that he had gotten that absolute assurance many times from his team.I cannot believe that the trainer had received absolute authority from the Sheik to run the yard as he saw fit.Steroids should only be used on your yearlings preparing them for the sales or on young horses, 2yos, following gelding to help them make up for the loss of testosteron.That is my understanding.I don’t own either types.
If we are questioning whether all Godolphin horses were on these drugs out of competition – so had an unfair advantage…
May be we should ask ourselves if all Australian horses had an unfair advantage and whether they should be allowed to race in Britain?
It seems Stanozolol is
NOT
banned in Australia out of competition!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/super … 6627011132
Does that help explain things?
well choisor looked like a tank when he came over. Also I believe Lasix is allowed in the states (steroids i’m not sure about) which might explain why ward cleaned up all the royal ascot two year old races a few years back.
Rumour and hearsay concerning the performances of their charges in recent times is undoubtedly no more than the stable deserves but it serves no useful purpose as it cannot be proven, only guessed at and that’s in the mind of the guesser.
Florence Griffith-Joyner’s 100m record of 10.49sec set in 1988 has not been remotely approached since and the consensus is that she ‘almost certainly’ used banned drugs but it can’t be removed from the record books as she was never tested positive, and died in 1998 anyway
The recent case of Lance Armstrong having retrospective removal of wins could make a tenuous case for a similar fate to be applied to Godolphins winning horses but this took place only after Armstrong’s admission he’d been drugged up for years. Watch this space, perhaps
Al Zarooni will I’m sure personally take all the punishment, but I do hope the authorities dig deep and try to ascertain who else – if anyone – both within and without the stable were involved in acquiring the drugs and who knew of its presence and its administration. Stanozolol in particular is such a well-known drug that it beggars belief that someone amongst those that knew it was being used didn’t know it was banned completely in UK Throughbreds registered as being ‘in training’. Al Zarooni couldn’t possibly have acted alone could he?
Should the police and CPS be sniffing and scratching about? I think so
Regarding the different rules on which drugs are and aren’t permissible within different racing jurisdictions: it strikes me that unless a global consensus is reached then the notion that horseracing is ‘international’ with the different jurisdictions welcoming horses to compete from all over the world is all but redundant. Level playing fields they aren’t
A pertinent read…
http://sbbcolumns.co.uk/2013/04/24/mahm … e-iceberg/
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