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Richard do you think they are the only party that lies?
No, they all do to a greater or lesser extent but two wrongs do not make a right and part Reform’s schtick is that they are different to the so-called ‘big two’. They are not.
I think they certainly did on the Leave side. In the days after the vote, quite a lot of people who said they had not voted in recent General Elections said they had voted in the referendum.Perhaps a case of one side being better at mobilising than the other. However after years of a system that effectively throws all the losing votes in each constituency in the bin (can be 70% plus in a marginal) you can see why people are apathetic, even though that particular vote was not under that system.
Anyway, time to leave it there for a while. There’s only so much politics I can take.
I have now read the article albeit not in depth. I see that it mainly about the US.A country led by a president who thought people could drink bleach to cure themselves. It also refers, yet again to Sweden, saying that Sweden didn’t lock down, which isn’t actually true. Comparisons with the US and the UK can’t really be made because Sweden is more sparsely populated, people there tend to live rather healthy lifestyles. More people are solitary dwellers so people aren’t cramped into areas of high population density. I bet they have a pretty good healthcare system too, which wasn’t compromised by years of government underfunding. I do agree that it’s wrong that China have never been held to account for what seems to be pretty conclusive evidence that the virus did originate from a laboratory and, imo, when we talk about how countries suffered economically because of covid China should recompense the world in some way. Could we also agree that both the UK and the US had the worst possible leaders at the worst possible time and, if both of them had taken the threat seriously sooner (Johnson being too preoccupied with getting Brexit and his divorce done) maybe the lock downs etc might not have been needed. Either way, let’s hope that lessons have been learned from it although, I’m not holding my breath. I admit that I do get over emotional about it because I couldn’t believe that I saw it unfolding and nothing seemed to be being done about it. And I do know of people, not just my elderly friend but young people, who died.My grandson was supposed to be going on a school trip to China which was cancelled because something was kicking off in the country, but it was largely ignored. And let’s not forget that New Zealand’s early lock downs policy meant that very few people died there, although I admit that, as with Sweden, it isn’t really a country that compares to ours.
Believe it or not I, too, am trying to avoid politics at the moment because, in the words of the Monty Pythons ‘ my brain hurts…’.
“Comparisons with the US and the UK can’t really be made because Sweden is more sparsely populated.”
Not around Stockholm it isn’t, where much of the population lives. It is actually quite similar to its near neighbours the Baltic States and it fared far better than them.
“And let’s not forget that New Zealand’s early lock downs policy meant that very few people died there”.
Not true. It was very badly affected in the second wave.
I agree though that Johnson was just about the worst person to be Prime Minister at the time.
“A country led by a president who thought people could drink bleach to cure themselves”.
That’s incorrect moehat.
I remember when Trump was talking about this in the early days of covid in a room of so called medical experts.
When someone remarked that bleach seemed to be having an effect on the virus, Trump said out loud good, let’s get it inside them someway, explore it but he did not say to drink it.
There was never any mention by him of anyone drinking the stuff, but the left saw the opportunity to insinuate that’s what he meant purely for political points.
Later on they produced some stats in New York which indicated 30 or so people had died because they drank bleach type products, and blamed Trump for the death’s. ‘Trouble’ was, someone then produced stats from the previous year before covid and the bleach inside them comment and found 40 or so had met a similar fate!
‘In 55 years of covering politics,I’ve never accused any UK Government of routinely telling untruths.But Starmer & co have taken lying and gaslighting to a deplorable level’
above is the headline of an article published by a well know and respected journalist & presenter.
good luck to allfrom the article mentioned above …..
‘yes politicians do deploy all manner of contrivances to avoid telling the truth when it’s inconvenient.As someone who’s spent a adult lifetime interviewing them I can readily testify to that.They regularly mislead,dissemble,obfuscate,bluster,sidestep the question and teeter on the edge of lying by being economical with the truth.
But outright lie?I have found that very rare indeed – on either side of the political divide.
No longer.I have to revise my opinion.In the so far short and sad existence of the Starmer Government,lying has become not just a feature to which it increasingly results -it’s become it’s – modus operandi,with the PM himself leading the charge of the untruths.
For me,matters came to a head this week.In the wake of the latest net migration figures compared with 2023 the Home Office tweeted out a poster which said ‘Net Migration cut by nearly 50%’,describing it as the largest ever drop in net migration for any 12 month period.The implication was clear: it was all somehow a result of Labour Government policy.But of couurse it wasn’t.And the Government knows it wasn’t.
Last years fall in net migration (only the ‘largest ever drop’ because it was coming off such a high total the year before of almost 1m) was largely the result of tougher visa rules introduced,belatedly, by the previous Tory government when James Cleverly was Home Secretary.
For half of last year Labour wasn’t in power.In opposition,it had actually attacked Cleverly’s rule-tightening with then shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper (now in charge of the Home Office) dismissing it as ‘chaotic’ and ‘Tory failure’.
But that didn’t stop Keir Starmer from going even further than his Home Secretary.On Thursday he tweeted out the claim that “we have nearly halved net migration in the last year.We’re taking back control”.
Labour,of course,had done no such thing.It had merely presided over implementing the new rules it had inherited from the Tories – rules it had criticised in opposition – when it took power in the second half of the year
This is not misleading or obfuscation or being economical with the truth or any other circumlocution we might like to fall back on to gloss over what is really happening.
It is in plain English a downright lie.’
Much more to come …….
good luck to allAs I posted earlier in the thread but it bears repeating:
“Personally I think politics and lying are intertwined. It is the hypocrisy of those politicians who call out liars (and habitually call for people to resign) but then wail when they are found out to be liars as well which is objectionable.
Politicians and lying always makes me think of an encounter between Winston Churchill and Frank Pick, which might be apocryphal or have grown taller in the telling.
Pick was the legendary Head of the London Underground. During WW2, he was recruited by the government to work in the propaganda department. At one point he objected to leaflets which were to be dropped over Germany which contained what we would now call misinformation. He asked to see Churchill.
Churchill: Now, Mr Pick. I understand you have been objecting to the dropping of the leaflets.
Pick: Yes, Prime Minister, what is written on the leaflets is not wholly true and that is bad propaganda.
Churchill: This is no time to be concerned with the niceties.
Pick: Prime Minister, I have never told a lie in my life.
Churchill: Mr Pick, yesterday the Germans shelled Dover with their long range guns at Cape Gris Nez. This afternoon I shall be visiting Dover. I may be killed by a German shell. If so, it will be a great comfort to me to know that on the last day of my life I spoke with a man who had never told a lie in his life. Get out.”
After the Southport murders, Sir Keir Starmer informed us that he couldn’t say anything because he did not want to prejudice the suspect’s right to a free trial. A consideration which hadn’t stopped him speaking out on various other cases before they reached court. Or stopped him commenting about cases since, either.
But yesterday, the front page of one of the Sunday papers advised its readers that MI5 officers investigating the arson attacks linked to Starmer are looking into possible links between the suspects and the Putin regime.
Who tipped off the papers? Intelligence officers who are ultimately responsible to the Prime Minister?
Does the right to a fair trial without prejudice not extend to the three Ukrainian male models and aspiring actors?
There is something very odd about this story. Perhaps we might find out more when they appear in court next month? Or perhaps they will all plead guilty, avoiding a trial?
I think it’s pretty vile that people have been attacking the PM’s property. Just as I would if anyone was attacked in that way.
It is actually his former property. And a car he used to own.
That suggests quite a lot of knowledge about Starmer. How do those young fellows know? It is quite a serious matter if the Prime Minister’s security has been compromised.
Personally, I think if Putin wanted to scare Starmer, I find it difficult to believe he would hire such a bunch of amateurs. And why would people from Ukraine want to work for Putin anyway?
As I say, there is something rather strange about it all. I reckon the media knows a lot more about it than it is letting on.
also from the above mentioned article the journalist writes …..
‘This week I asked a prominent Labour MP, often wheeled out for broadcast interviews, to tell us exactly what Labour had done last year to cut net migration by 50%.I said I was especially interested in what Labour had done during the six months it wasn’t even in power!
Naturally, I’m still waiting for an answer.
You really must take us for fools I said
Perhaps we should not be surprised that lying and gaslighting – telling us things we know not to be true but doing it with such authority that we begin to question our own sanity – have become the distinguishing features of the Starmer Government.’
more to follow …..
good luck to allabove is the headline of an article published by a well know and respected journalist & presenter
Right wing journo Andrew Neil by any chance
And why would people from Ukraine want to work for Putin anyway?
Plenty of Ukranians who would rather be governed by Russia.
I continue from the above mentioned article …. something I admit I wasn’t aware of from that left wing stalwart Guardian newspaper.
‘As The Guardian revealed during the election campaign,it was always the plan to say, ‘We’ve seen the book, it’s much worse than we thought’,as the precursor to whacking up taxes, spending and borrowing.’
‘In many ways the Starmer Government has never recovered from Reeves’s disastrous first budget – which has only made the PM even more cavalier with the facts.Labour had inherited 11% interest rates, he told the House of Commons earlier this year.
(Is this not a outright lie? , my words)
Increasingly we are misled by omission,Starmer boasts of his new youth mobility scheme with the EU (which he ruled out only eight months ago).
But he cannot tell us how many will come here, for how long and what the division will be between work and study?
He says he’s negotiated a better deal for British food and defence exports to the EU.But will not say how much the improved access is going to cost us – or why we’re paying for more free trade.’
(my words now these payments for me are just tariffs in disguise,tariffs by another name)
Now back to article …..
‘In all these cases we know what we’re giving away.But we have only the vaguest idea what we are getting in return.It’s a pretty good rule of thumb that when governments won’t tell you things it’s because the truth will hurt.’
and there’s still more to come…..
good luck to all
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