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Not often I can mention “sense” and “Bananaland” in the same sentence these days, but a good article on the fatalities at Leopardstown’s Christmas festival in last Sundays, Sunday Independent (Irish newspaper). Ronan Groome’s (author) attempt at educating readers who perhaps might not be regular racing followers about how and why fatalities are dealt with in the manner that they are on a racecourse, should be commended. Interestingly enough he points out that of the 329 viewer complaints received by the BBC post last years Grand National, only eight were complaints about use of the whip.
Certainly makes a pleasant change to read such sense in a non racing national newspaper, rather than the nonsense print media the BHA seem so enthrall to.
Interestingly enough he points out that of the 329 viewer complaints received by the BBC post last years Grand National, only
eight
were complaints about use of the whip.
And the other 321 were the drama queens reacting to buckets of water being thrown over the horses! Not that i’m ‘Whippin it up’ again but a bit of Foresight from the BHA by informing the press and public that this was always the plan after the race would have certainly ‘cooled’ not only the runners but those watching too!
The vast majority of complaints the BBC received post Grand National were about the way the fatalities were broadcast (i.e. images of dead horses lying under tarpaulin while the remainder of the field galloped past) and not, as I understand it, about the buckets of water KF. I agree it was poor PR from BHA not to have informed everyone beforehand about the water dousing(assuming they didn’t).
The fact that
only
8 complaints were whip-related has been widely discussed and has been repeatedly highlighted by those opposed to changes to whip rules as evidence that there was no public clamouring for change.
It’s an irrelevant stat in the context of the whip rule change as far as I’m concerned and I’ve said so several times. Racing shouldn’t need to wait until there some kind of public outcry clamouring for change before it acts. It was clear to many racing fans and people within the industry, including many highly respected, experienced and knowleadgable persons, that the old rules uneccesarily allowed excessive use by having a guidleine that allowed too great a number of strikes and rules that were unclear for both participants and stewards (as argued by jockeys also).
It’s equally clear that jockeys have, by and large, adapted to the new rules and, now that the initial glitches have been ironed out, they (the rules) seem to work perfectly well and provide racing that is every bit as interesting, absorbing and exciting while allowing for safer racing for both horse and jockey. Doom-mongers who predicted apocalyptic scenarios when National Hunt got into full swing and/or when we hit a period of soft ground have found that their fears were unfounded.
Perhaps this year there’ll be NO complaints about whip use in the GN. A 100% reduction!!
The mere fact that all the hysterical whip threads that had swamped this forum are now largely a thing of the past is testament to the fact that everyone is adapting.
Please don’t allow this to start it all over again everyone.
Cormack and his merry band of illusionists haven’t included commonsense in their new years resolution list, I see.
If I hadn’t used the word "whip" in one sentence on the OP they’d probably all be agreeing with Ronan Groome, but unlike Ronans consistency on welfare, the Indian Ropemen are OK with fatalities,"all part of the sport", 5 dead horses acceptable, 9 strokes with foam not acceptable.
The straw clutching continues unabashed into 2012, words like "interesting, absorbing and exciting" were never used to justify the rule change, but are happily flung out to justify its existence…..and SAFETY? what SAFETY?
8 whip complaints from 8.8 million viewers….
The Taliban are opening an office in Doha, corm. I’ll bring you some pamphlets.
The mere fact that all the hysterical whip threads that had swamped this forum are now largely a thing of the past is testament to the fact that everyone is adapting.
Please don’t allow this to start it all over again everyone.For the benefit of cormack, Coggy et al
Racing Post Poll last week:
Are you happy with the new whip rules now they have bedded in?
Yes 20%
No 80%Richard Johnson outstanding ride on Carrickmines at Taunton on Monday receives 2 day ban. BHA bringing the sport into disrepute, they should be sacked.
Why do you consider it acceptable for horses to be killed in the name of sport by being made to jump fences and ditches but not acceptable for a piece of foam to be used on them 9 times to make them go a bit faster?
Timmy Murphy great ride, 4 day ban.
Hysteria had died down but the OP mentioned the number 8 and it triggered off Hysteria!!I vowed I’d never post on this subject again having outlined my thoughts in full on a previous thread but I would just like to address a point that has already been raised a couple of times in this thread.
The welfare issue is not whether being hit more than 8 times with ‘foam’ hurts the horse, rather the issue is whether eliciting the physiological and psychological responses generated by being hit by the whip beyond a certain limit constitutes a ‘welfare issue’.
I’m satisfied that there should be a limit to the number of times the flight response (because that is what is elicited by the use of the whip) is generated in horses which are tired/unwilling at the end of a race.
I believe there is a real danger that horses which cannot or do not want to exert themselves any further at the end of a race having already had the flight response generated on 8 occasions may suffer physical pain or injury (through over-exertion)or mental suffering as a result of the psychological affects of repeatedly experiencing the flight response.
That’s why I consider the presence or absence of ‘weals’ to be wholly immaterial. If I subject you to white noise for an extended period you will suffer adverse physical and mental symptoms not because the noise in and of itself ‘hurts’ you but because the amount (excessive use) of white noise has adverse consequences. I see the whip issue as exactly comparable.
Pinza has the numbers:-
pinzauk.com
Nice one, Pinza.
Tuffers, by your logic farmers herding sheep by running after them whilst clapping their hands are next on the 8 housewives hitlist.
http://www.auburnfootball.com/GIFS/clap.gif
Pinza has the numbers.
pinzauk.com
Nice one, Pinza.
Lies, damned lies or does anyone give a tinker’s cuss?
As far as I can see people are still getting paid out on the winner, still bemoaning their selection’s lack of effort. No one is forced to watch it, forced to bet on it or even forced to discuss the sport. That there has be little effect in the volume of all three implies that even the vast majority of the betting public do not really care about something they know little more about than the non-betting public.
A new wax cylinder might be nice.
Tuffers i dont see any mention of the Mental/psychological effects a horse suffers when it comes a cropper jumping a fence at 30mph,i would hazard a guess that when a horse struggles to get up from falling due only to being winded its suffering more mentally than when its being slapped on the backside with a piece of foam but hey thats the price these fine animals pay for our pleasure.
Golden Silver
paid the ultimate price a couple of weeks ago for our entertainment,i’m sure he’d rather have a sore a*se though!
Sadly the forum will descend, once again, into a morass of whip related entrenched positions.
Just let it go guys. The rules are here to stay (subject to tinkering). The old rules are gone, and more importantly, will never return.
The Racing Post poll is exactly what you would expect. Eddie have you never had to manage a change in your life / business i.e. culture, working practices etc. ?
Thats human nature, mateNo intention of going back over old and entrenched ground, Coggy. The main point of my opening post is the mature and edifying approach a mainstream media outlet has taken in relation to horse welfare on our racecourses.
"Passionate debate" of all things horseracing (whip included), has always been the remit of TRF. Long may that continue.
The Racing Post poll is exactly what you would expect. Eddie have you never had to manage a change in your life / business i.e. culture, working practices etc. ?
Thats human nature, mateIf it makes you happy Coggy you continue to believe what you want and ignore the facts.
I would say that the poll was not what anyone would expect especially with the suggestive question intimating everything is alright now the whip rules have bedded in.
The 80/20 result was a pleasant surprise and very encouraging that so many racing fans have not been hoodwinked by the BHA and their motives.Yet again Coogy you fail to answer why you are content to have horses killed in the name of sport by being made to jump fences and ditches over 3 miles but absolutely abhor the use of a foam stick 8 times to make horses go a bit faster in a mile flat race.
I do wonder these days how many results are different to how they would have been last season, but I guess only the jockeys and trainers could tell me that, my racereading skills not being up to much. We’ve come a long way since the days when horses died from heat [The Crimean War] of cold [The Boer War] and had their vocal chords removed so as not to give away the army’s position [The First World War]. Thankfully, horses are no longer sent into battle, but, whatever they do in war or sport they do because they trust us, and surely hurling them at a huge fence at racing speed betrays that trust more than hitting them with a bit of foam? We’ll still cover up the things that really matter, overbreeding of horses and live exportation for slaughter [surely the most terrifying thing that can happen to any horse], but, as long as we’re ‘seen’ to be doing something for horse welfare, that’s fine.
Tuffers, by your logic farmers herding sheep by running after them whilst clapping their hands are next on the 8 housewives hitlist.
Not quite, Cav. The horse, as we all know, is a flight animal. Flight animals have an innate instinct to run when they perceive a threat from a predator. Predators usually attack flight animals by chasing them and attacking their quarters with teeth/claws. As soon as a flight animal feels something hit its quarters, therefore, it produces an instantaneous physical reaction causing stress hormones to flood the body as the animal seeks to escape the predator.
If I point a gun at your head and shout ‘Run or Die!’ I imagine I will elicit a similar flight response in you. I haven’t hurt you so the delivery method used to elicit the response is quite beside the point.
If I may be permitted to digress somewhat, I recall one of Dick Francis’ early books where the criminals repeatedly subjected a horse to the terrifying experience of firing a flamethrower just behind its legs whilst blowing a high-pitched whistle until the horse associated the sound of the whistle with the flamethrower. When the whistle was blown during the race, the horse’s reaction was understandably dramatic.
To come back to the point, then, no-one could argue that blowing a whistle in and of itself harms a horse’s welfare just as hitting it with ‘a piece of foam’ will cause a welfare issue in and of itself. It is the physical and psychological reaction to those acts which can cause the harm not the acts themselves.
If you only consider whether hitting a horse with ‘a piece of foam’ causes a horse pain, you fail to understand what it is about the overuse of the whip that has the potential to result in a welfare issue for the horse.
Tuffers i dont see any mention of the Mental/psychological effects a horse suffers when it comes a cropper jumping a fence at 30mph,i would hazard a guess that when a horse struggles to get up from falling due only to being winded its suffering more mentally than when its being slapped on the backside with a piece of foam but hey thats the price these fine animals pay for our pleasure.
Golden Silver
paid the ultimate price a couple of weeks ago for our entertainment,i’m sure he’d rather have a sore a*se though!
A good point and one reason why I shall never be able to bring myself to own a chaser – though as you can see from my signature, I have nothing but admiration for the bravery of those horses that do give their all over fences.
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