November 8, 2006 at 05:43 #418AnonymousInactive
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Does anyone know if there are any plans to introduce 48 hr decs for NH races, and if not, why not?<br> As a regular punter, I find it helps a lot to know the fields 2 days before, and am mystified as to why there is apparently no move to introduce what, ostensibly at least, has proved successful on the flat.<br> Maybe there isn’t the overseas market for knowing the runners earlier in this sphere, but surely all the other reasons, such as getting the full cards in the evening papers, and forming markets earlier, apply equally to both codes?<br> Would members kindly express their opinion in the above poll then, hopefully if there is enough interest, someone somewhere may start the ball rolling?
(Edited by reet hard at 5:44 am on Nov. 8, 2006)November 8, 2006 at 07:23 #30457yeatsParticipant
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Couldn’t disagree more, how has it been successful on the flat with the multitude of non runners and punters not knowing what was running or not. Why is 24 hours not sufficient for you or any punter in the world in the age of the internet? Where are these early markets formed you talk about?<br>48 hours gives more time for ground and weather changes in this country. The sooner we get back to 24 hour decs for all racing the better. <br>November 8, 2006 at 08:07 #30458carlisleMember
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48 Hours is brilliant. It makes my data collection and analysis so much easier. It’s still relatively new so it needs to settle down.
The poll will make interesting reading.
byefrom<br>carlisle<br>November 8, 2006 at 08:58 #30459DroneParticipant
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Opposed to 48hr decs as per yeats post and the sole reason they may work less badly with NH is the lack of ‘quick returners’ compared to the Flat.
There’s been 48hr decs for NH on sundays for a while – more NRs; more doubly declared, both on the sunday and from friday and saturdays cards.
How it ‘helps’ the punter escapes me.November 8, 2006 at 09:23 #30460graysonscolumnParticipant
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There’ll always be people convenienced or inconvenienced by the introduction of something like this, dependent on their own circumstances. We were delighted at the Sportsman when 48hr Flat decs came in, as we could really steal a march on Monday cards from Saturday morning onwards and steal back enough time over the weekend as a whole to concentrate more fully on assorted editorial projects.
The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.November 8, 2006 at 09:35 #30461AnonymousInactive
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Yeats<br> As you are probably aware, the teething problems experienced with 48hr flat racing declarations were caused mainly by trainers taking advantage of a loophole which did not exist in the former system and which has since been closed by the HRA resulting in a much more stable situation, eg. only 27 non-runners in October. No doubt the same applies to Sunday NH races?<br> More detail here<br> Obviously there were sensible and valid reasons for introducing 48hr decs, it would hardly have been done just to alienate trainers and stable staff alone, and as I indicated initially, from a punting perspective it is a great help to be able to study a dozen or so confirmed runners rather than 30 odd ‘possibles’.<br>It has worked successfully for grade1 NH races for quite a while already, with few, if any, of the ‘horror stories’ portrayed actually manifested, it already obtains in many other countries, and I have still to see a convincing defence for the status quo.November 8, 2006 at 10:51 #30462DroneParticipant
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Quote: from reet hard on 9:35 am on Nov. 8, 2006[br] Yeats
It has worked successfully for grade1 NH races for quite a while already, with few, if any, of the ‘horror stories’ portrayed actually manifested,
It works okay with Grade1/Group1 races because there’s generally few other races to choose from; but for yer run of the mill horse there’s plenty so no problem scratching today and running tomorrow or in the case of doubly declared horses, yesterday.November 8, 2006 at 11:10 #30463PrufrockParticipant
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If trainers were capable of doing their jobs properly, in terms of identifying suitable races and weighing up the likely opposition, then there would be very few problems. 48-hour decs have shown them in a very poor light, IMO.November 8, 2006 at 12:07 #30464mulls74Participant
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Definitely in the pro camp. Getting the cards in the evening papers is an often overlooked yet very important plus of 48-hour decs.November 8, 2006 at 19:01 #30465yeatsParticipant
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Quote: from reet hard on 9:35 am on Nov. 8, 2006[br] Yeats<br> As you are probably aware, the teething problems experienced with 48hr flat racing declarations were caused mainly by trainers taking advantage of a loophole which did not exist in the former system and which has since been closed by the HRA resulting in a much more stable situation, eg. only 27 non-runners in October.<br>
<br>In the article you refer to reet hard it doesn’t actually say that despite the misleading nature of the article. The important quote from Will Lambe regarding the big increase in nr’s in August & September states "The fact is that the going changed at the overwhelming majority of meetings during the period in which relaxation was in place, so trainers were fully permitted to withdraw horses without walking the course or taking a horse to the course"
He also says "As was to be hoped, we saw quite a drop in the average nr per race in October as the weather was far more consistent and there was far less volatility in ground conditions"
<br>So no evidence there of anyone taking advantage of any loophole and no reason to believe there wouldn’t have been a lot more nr’s in Oct if the changeable weather and ground conditions had continued.November 8, 2006 at 19:34 #30466dave jayMember
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I agree with Prufrock .. 48 hr decs have shown them up for the loads of fiddling gits they are !November 8, 2006 at 22:09 #30467richardParticipant
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There are no sensible and valid reasons for the introduction of 48 hour flat decs. The reason they were introduced was because ATR and RUK hope – and that is the word- that it will enable them to sell transmissions to overseas jurisdictions and attract overseas betting revenue. This despite the fact that previous experiments, with 48 hour decs on the A/W, didn’t generate a red cent. And so far, this latest attempt has generated no revenue at all. Nor is there as yet any indication that it will.
The decision to implement 48 hour flat decs was forced through the BHB board against the advice of owners and trainers by the RCA with the support of the BHB permanent members. The latter desperately flailing around for sources of revenue after their mis-management of the data rights issue and bookmakers cutting the levy payment.
Normally I’d take any pronouncements by bookmakers at the end of a very long spoon. But they have said 48 hr decs will cost them and racing revenue because of their reluctance to price up eary ‘cos of non runners. No reason for them to say that unless they were sure that would be the effect.
48 hr decs will not be applied to jumps racing. This is a sport mostly limited to the UK, Eire and France. There is little interest in the USA, Far East, Middle East and Australia.
As to the comment from that renowned and well known trainer of racehorses Prufrock, if he doesn’t understand the effect of 48 hr decs, I’m sure there are posters who can bore the more knowledgeable members of this forum by enlightening him.
richardNovember 8, 2006 at 22:53 #30468AnonymousInactive
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"There are no sensible and valid reasons for the introduction of 48 hour flat decs."
TV broadcasters have requested it, the press welcomes it with open arms, punters need it, many other countries already have it, racing’s rulers believe in it, and even Ladbrokes have slowly started Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â pricing up non-televised races on the day previous.
WTF do they know seems the only argument against it.:oNovember 8, 2006 at 23:40 #30469empty walletMember
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But they have said 48 hr decs will cost them and racing revenue because of their reluctance to price up eary ‘cos of non runners
<br>Must be a good idea if bookies don’t like it imoNovember 8, 2006 at 23:41 #30470richardParticipant
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Do you work for RUK/ATR Reet Hard?
Let me repeat, the reason the two broadcasters have forced through 48 hr decs is because they believe money can be made for their shareholders. The shareholders are in RUK’s case their racetracks. The majority shareholder in ATR is Arena Leisure, who, of course, own racetracks
Racing’s rulers are currently the RCA and the BHB beurocrats. Trainers have no vote on the BHB board and the ROA is consistently out voted by the afore mentioned bloc.
The Racing Post is in commercial parnership with RUK and they get a considerable amount of advertising from ATR and the minority shareholder Sky through the Skybet operation. So their editorial stance is to support 48 hr decs. Admittedly they do allow the occasional contra view from their once in a while independent opinion writers, but the main editorial thrust is to support those who help to make the profits.
The other countries arguement is a non starter. In most of those jurisdictions horses are trained at or near the tracks where they race – which is not the situation in the UK. In this country just getting a horse to the track is an expensive business and there is no recompense if on arriving the horse has to be withdrawn.
As to punters, like I said I’m no spokesman for the bookies, but if they think 48 hr decs is reducing betting turnover then to my mind that sums up punters’ opinions.
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