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Best of luck Boz Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...My issue here is that the last few years, ever since King Kauto won really, have thrown up Silvianiaco Conti or Cue Card wins, which, especially in the latter years of the roll of honour, have had little bearing on where the top prizes go in the spring.
This is part of the ‘triple crown’ for a reason. Sure there’ll be knockers that say Bristol De Mai won’t win a Gold Cup, but why not? He’s a young improving chaser who could be going places. If he wins by 10 tomorrow I’d say it’d do a fair bit more for the division as a whole than it would if (yawn) Cue Card won it again.
The old boy winning may make the winners enclosure pop but I’m afraid I’ll be leaving my hanky at home.
Personally Boz, I couldn’t care less if the winner of the Betfair does not go on to win the “triple crown”. Not everything needs to have a Cheltenham slant. Outlander will be by far my best result betting-wise, but it will be absolutely fantastic for racing if the old boy made it four Betfair’s tomorrow.
Value Is EverythingI suppose the point is that Cue Card’s been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and then sent it back having realised it didn’t fit. He’s ultimately completely exposed at the top level nowadays and if he were to win tomorrow it shows that there’s not much to come through that we don’t already know about.
If he wins then for me it’ll say a lot more about both Bristol De Mai and Outlander than it will about Cue Card himself. Sad but true.
I cannot believe the negativity towards CUE CARD . multiple gr 1 winner , at this course , in this very race and relishes the going . the epitome of ticking all the boxes . of course he may not win but has been the stand out value all along . I for one hope he wins as easily as he has 3 out of the last 4 runnings and puts all this talk of retirement to bed
I suppose the point is that Cue Card’s been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and then sent it back having realised it didn’t fit. He’s ultimately completely exposed at the top level nowadays and if he were to win tomorrow it shows that there’s not much to come through that we don’t already know about.
If he wins then for me it’ll say a lot more about both Bristol De Mai and Outlander than it will about Cue Card himself. Sad but true.
Yes, Cue Card is “ultimately completely exposed”, Boz; exposed as by some way the best horse in the race and that’s only on last season’s form… let alone if he were to show his very best. Be great to see a top class winner… Yes “it’ll say a lot more” with any other winner, ie in all probability it’ll say “substandard winner”. Sad but true.
We should treasure horses of Cue Card’s ability. I’d just like to see one more master class from the old boy.
Value Is EverythingI have thrown the favourite in a multiple for interest.
I have also backed BDM for the Gold Cup at 33s which is of far more interest to me than for this race.
I think he’s improving. I think he may just absolutely rout them. I can see him coming off the final bend on the bridle and absolutely cruising.
Traffic Fluide is a grade 1 stayer in waiting. Should be fairly straightforward for him on this ground.
I’m amazed that not one person can see what a great chance he has here.
Will become a serious king George/gold cup contender after this.I’ve went for Cue Card at 4/1 earlier this month. Mainly because of emotions instead of ratio. Also had some money on Sizing John when he drifted out at the beginning of this week.
Traffic Fluide is a grade 1 stayer in waiting. Should be fairly straightforward for him on this ground.
I’m amazed that not one person can see what a great chance he has here.
Will become a serious king George/gold cup contender after this.Really, Potato? Are you sure?
Where’s the evidence Traffic Fluide is a “grade 1 stayer in waiting”?
“Not one person can see what a great chance he has here”, because on all known form he doesn’t.Traffic Fluide staying on past beaten horses who (unlike him) had taken the winner on. Probably flattered by even that form, which is nowhere near the level needed here. Current mark 153, Cue Card is 168 (over a stone better) Outlander 166, Tea For Two 164, Bristol De Mai 160. Has a lot to find on ratings. Traffic Fluide’s best form by far is in January 2016, 5 lengths third, again staying on against two (Un De Sceaux and Sire De Grugy) who’d taken each other on – again in all probability flattered… And that’s his one stand out piece of form. ie Nothing he’s done before or since suggests he’s that good… Indeed, recent efforts suggest if any horse is past his best it’s him… And that stand out performance was at 2m1f, not 3m1f. Staying on at lesser distances doesn’t mean he’ll stay this trip… Particularly when ground conditions place an emphasis on stamina (it’ll be far from “straightforward for him on this ground”).
Has the trainer really got this horse that wrong all its life? Traffic Fluide is an outsider for good reason.
Value Is EverythingTraffic Fluide is a grade 1 stayer in waiting. Should be fairly straightforward for him on this ground.
I’m amazed that not one person can see what a great chance he has here.
Will become a serious king George/gold cup contender after this.Nothing from this field will win either the king george or the gold cup unless theres alot of injuries
He may very well win this, i cant see it though, 15lbs to find off level weights with cue card on a track cue card likes on ground he likes, so if he runs to form traffic fluide is going to need to find atleast 15lbs just to beat cue card and thats assuming bdm dosent improve 8lbs (he might, but i doubt that aswell)
If cue card stands up i still find it hard to believe any of these will be good enough
And boz, i think thats a bit harsh on cue card, he wasnt short of top class, he was top class and his longevity puts him infront of alot of horses in terms of how he will be remembered, id say itd be sad if anything else but cue card won this as there all mediocre at best
I cannot believe the negativity towards CUE CARD . multiple gr 1 winner , at this course , in this very race and relishes the going . the epitome of ticking all the boxes . of course he may not win but has been the stand out value all along . I for one hope he wins as easily as he has 3 out of the last 4 runnings and puts all this talk of retirement to bed
In turn, I can’t believe that you can’t understand the negativity – everything points to a horse in decline who is far from certain to even complete today. I hope to heaven he does, and safely, and it’d be lovely to see him have a huge run, but rose-tinted specs shouldn’t obscure the fact that he is coming close to being a serial faller, and as much as Tizzard and co keep telling us “he’s as good as he ever has been”, the evidence surely suggests otherwise. I just hope he comes back safe and if he wins I’ll be delighted, but could I bet him today – not a chance.
Small play for me on Outlander who is the only one who appeals at the prices.
This is not a betting race for me. I’d love to see Cue Card win as I adore the horse and it’ll be good for racing. But no monetary interest in this one. Well done those on runners at the juicy prices when Sizing john was still in.
I cannot believe the negativity towards CUE CARD . multiple gr 1 winner , at this course , in this very race and relishes the going . the epitome of ticking all the boxes . of course he may not win but has been the stand out value all along . I for one hope he wins as easily as he has 3 out of the last 4 runnings and puts all this talk of retirement to bed
In turn, I can’t believe that you can’t understand the negativity – everything points to a horse in decline who is far from certain to even complete today. I hope to heaven he does, and safely, and it’d be lovely to see him have a huge run, but rose-tinted specs shouldn’t obscure the fact that he is coming close to being a serial faller, and as much as Tizzard and co keep telling us “he’s as good as he ever has been”, the evidence surely suggests otherwise. I just hope he comes back safe and if he wins I’ll be delighted, but could I bet him today – not a chance.
Small play for me on Outlander who is the only one who appeals at the prices.
Win or lose, it is not “rose coloured specs”. It’s not a game of certainties and “everything” does not point to Cue Card being on the “decline”. As always it’s about probabilities. We don’t know what’s going to happen, there are many possibilities and it is up to each punter to look at the form and consider whether the price is worth taking the risks. If everyone knew Cue Card would run to last year’s form he’d be odds-on. But he’s not odds-on, he’s 2/1. Has he got a better or worse than 33% chance? imo Yes.
If Cue Card has not lost his confidence from the fall – and he’s come back from a bad fall before to jump well – then without others around him he usually jumps well. Judging from today’s rivals usual tactics he’ll be at least with a clear view racing prominently with Bristol De Mai, hopefully Cobden can lead.. as both jockey and horse like to do.
Cue Card was in with a chance when falling in the Charlie Hall. True too far out to know if he’d won, but we don’t need to know that.
He was certainly going well enough to suggest he’d have run to at least the same level as he did in the race the previous year… And therefore we know that if Cue Card does what he’s done other years (including even when winning the Charlie Hall) – improve the same amount for his reappearance – he can run to the same level of form shown here last season… And if that’s the case will win. So…Of course there’s a chance age is catching up with him, but it’s by no means certain. If only capable of the form shown in the Aintree Bowl when second to Tea For Two it won’t be good enough; but that is only one race. If still capable of the form that had him winning here and.or the Ascot Chase – which was only 9 months ago – will win. Doesn’t even need to be at his very best to win.
Value Is EverythingAm not having a bet and I’m a huge Cue Card fan, but if BDM produces his normal Haydock performance he will take an awful lot of beating. He’d need to be practically error free as, on past evidence, an early mistake can unsettle him for the rest of the race. But if he’s in the form he was in his last 2 visits here, he could win this in style and find his KG price slashed.
You were saying last season Ginge that Cue Cards best form was with good in the going…..?
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Of course it’s not a game of certainties – my main point was just there there are, very visibly, a number of negatives to factor in regarding Cue Card’s form over the last year. To suggest otherwise, and instead simply point to his (outstanding) past record, IS (IMO) viewing things through rose-tinted specs.
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