Betfair Chase 2017

Steeplechasing wrote:

I’m not having this at all. Just had a long twitter debate with Dan Barber over it. So, from much of what I’ve seen here and on social media, tonight’s racing headline should actually be: Lots of Good Horses Bar One Run Very Poorly

Really, is this what racing wants to be? Have you ever seen anything like that in a Grade One? Ever? Does it matter that BDM was better suited to the conditions than anything else? Why does this mean everything else was 35lbs below ‘normal’ form? Why wasn’t BDM 35lbs above ‘normal form’? I get it from a historical handicapping viewpoint, but when a sport cannot glorify a performance never seen from the likes of Arkle, Kauto Star, Denman, Sprinter, whoever you care to name. When we cannot celebrate a victory like that because every horse in the race MUST be given a pass, no wonder we struggle to gain fans.

It’s not as if BDM was quickly fitted with a hovercraft skirt or something before he jumped off. He was equipped exactly the same as his rivals. The reason they all looked second raters was BDM. Had he not been there, everything would suddenly have run its race. They were not amiss. They did not all have a bad day at the office. They were exhausted because of the pace he set.

This beautiful big six-year-old grey horse just waltzed home by FIFTY-SEVEN LENGTHS in a Grade One and much of what I hear from veteran racing fans is carping. Seriously?

It’s utterly ridiculous . . . To the point of being shameful.

I share this sentiment to a degree. Wide margin successes on heavy ground are often taken with a handful of salt, but 57 lengths in a Grade 1, against multiple recent Grade 1 winners, is nothing short of exceptional.

I have no doubt the racing fans on course appreciated the achievement for what it was, but it’s in the very nature of these online forums and twitter to look at everything through the cold, hard eyes of a ruthless punter.

Well done Bristol De Mai, outstanding.

Bet Victor still go 50/1 on Bristol De Mai to secure the triple crown, and I’m going to trust what was right in front of my own two eyes today. Granted he probably needs it to come up heavy at Kempton and Cheltenham to have the same chance, but I can’t ignore what I saw today. The scary thing is the horse is still only 6, how much more improvement does he have in him?

Yes that’s the point I was making. Let’s retire them all and abolish the sport

I think at this point you’re just being pedantic TWM.

Haven’t seen the race yet but WD BDM backers and the horse himself- must have been some horse to deal with conditions and beat them by such a margin; given that no horse probably actually likes heavy going.

Part of me is glad Cue Card didn’t run up to his best- if he had, they might have torn the hearts out of each other and pulled the daylights out of their tendons, or one might have been forced into a disastrous mistake. Glad CC and Harry home safe along with the others.

thewexfordman wrote:

bozlike wrote:

Yes that’s the point I was making. Let’s retire them all and abolish the sport

I think at this point you’re just being pedantic TWM.

I’m not intending on being pedantic at all. I just believe that every argument you have put forward to retire cue card could be put forward to retire any horse for the reasons I have outlined in my previous posts. My argument essentially is that based on performances and the attitude he still shows, there is no reason to retire him. I understand that others may have different views but this is a forum and these issues are there to be debated.

Cue Card is not just any horse. He is a dual Festival winner with two very heavy falls on his last two visits there and he can consider himself very lucky to have survived both of them.
At Wetherby he hit the ditch very hard and everybody knows that it could have gone the other way as well. He has also earned more money than most of us would earn in 40 years of work and right know he is about one and a half stones inferior to his best form plus the jumping mistakes and his age.
Where is the point of not retiring him? Dropping his mark maybe to 150 so he can get into class B handicaps off a favorable weight surely isn’t the goal.
Not only that the winner was phenomenal on the day, but the also rans will continue to run for minor prize-money when Sizing John and Mite Bite enter the stage.
I can’t see an improvement coming from Cue Card in the near future and if yes, then expect Sizing John, Mite Bite and Bristol De Mai to improve even more.

Good luck to all of you that are taking that performance at face value, I wish I had your rose tinted glasses – was it impressive on the eye, yes 1000% it was but conditions like that will also exaggerate winning margins simply because some horses just can’t cope with it whilst others revel in it.

Do I think Cue Card, Tea For Two & Outlander have performed anywhere near their best today, the answer is clearly no and whilst some of that is down to BDM taking them out of their comfort zone it cannot be all attributed to that (and yes it is possible for one or more horses not to run their respective races). Lets face it Tea For Two’s best performances are on much better ground, Outlander is consistantly inconsistant (his previous two races on soft ground he beat Road To Riches by 0.5L and was in turn beaten 42L by Road To Riches) and we all know about the issues surrounding Cue Card.

BDM most impressive wins have come at one flat track in extremely testing conditions, look at his form outside of those parameters and you get an entirely different story, he has won only one of his six races on ground that was quicker than soft.

As I have said in a previous post the KG (most likey to be run on much better going and at a much faster pace) will be a much better barometer of BDM’s ability and if he thumps the likes of Thistlecrack, Sizing John, Djakadam & Might Bite et al I will then be more inclined to believe in the horse being what some have alluded to on here.

But until then the jury is still out.

Cue Card is not just any horse. He is a dual Festival winner with two very heavy falls on his last two visits there and he can consider himself very lucky to have survived both of them.
[/quote]

Why should other racehorses lives matter less?

Cue Card is a racehorse.

Yes, imo it is possible (nowhere near “likely” but possible) he could run to a level capable of winning a Grade 1 if tactics are changed. Surprised they employed virtually the same tactics as Wetherby, I’d like to see them give it one last go and lead from the front. But having said that… If the Tizzards try everything at home and he’s not showing any competitiveness – am sure they’ll retire him. Why does it need to be a decision made today?

It depends what you mean by ‘face value’, LD. Do you mean you believe he’ll never produce that again anywhere? Or is it specifically Cheltenham on good ground or maybe Kempton on good to soft?

I don’t think anyone would expect him to replicate that exactly away from Haydock and deep ground. But that doesn’t mean the performance should be criticised. If today’s race was run again next month – same field, same venue, same ground, what price would you offer Bristol De Mai?

You say, “Do I think Cue Card, Tea For Two & Outlander have performed anywhere near their best today, the answer is clearly no and whilst some of that is down to BDM taking them out of their comfort zone it cannot be all attributed to that (and yes it is possible for one or more horses not to run their respective races).”

We don’t know what Cue Card’s best is these days. Here’s what his trainer said:

“I think he’s run on a par with his other runs [at Haydock],” Colin Tizzard, his trainer said. “He’s just been beaten by a very good horse on the day. The winner blew the race away, really.”

You say it’s possible for one or more not to run their respective races. How many of the field do you believe did not run their race?

Does no one else find it worrying that a horse won a grade 1 by 57 lengths?