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2016 Cheltenham Gold Cup

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  • #1231617
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    Cracking Gold Cup trial on Saturday if those at the front of the betting in The Irish Gold Cup stand their ground.

    I rarely bet odds-on, but if Vautour continues to be unloved by those who doubt his stamina, I might have a few quid on.

    This would be RtR’s perfect trip (3m) imo, and if reports of his homework are accurate, he’ll be further forward than Vautour in fitness, and would need to win or go very close to justify a GC run rather than Ryanair. If DP turns up, this is where we get to see just how good he is. I’m undecided about him, but for all that he loves a stamina test, I don’t think he’s short of speed if he can be kept awake and on the ball throughout.

    Vautour – With A Run (1/2), Road To Riches (1), Don Poli (5/2), Foxrock (7)in, First Lieutenant (10), Gilgamboa (10), Carlingford Lough (14), Sir Des Champs (16)in, Valseur Lido (20), On His Own (25), Wounded Warrior (25)in, Boston Bob (33), Virak (40), Fine Rightly (66), Roi Du Mee (100)

    #1231636
    Avatar photoMarkTT
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    • Total Posts 3080

    Road To Riches was on the go eaarly last summer, training and jumping fences when most of his Gold Cup rivals were grazing in the paddocks. He put in a few excellent performances during the winter but i think he was over the top by the time Cheltenham came round and was still recovering from trying to match Coneygree’s Gold Cup pace when suffered a heavy defeat at Punchestown

    He’s top class, much fresher this season and will win the Ryanair if he runs in it ( and Vautour doesn’t )
    He’d also have a chance in this. The problem is that neither of the two Don’s could win a Ryanair so RTR would appear to be the best option there for Gigginstown.

    #1231637
    Avatar photoZarkava
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    I’ve had £2 on Ballycasey at 1000 and a few quid at 100 to be placed, just incase like. Smashed Don Cossack over 21f a few years back. He’s being prepped for the National but I reckon he could sneak a place.

    #1231664
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    Here’s another one for those who like to trade, or at least, don’t mind the occasional dabble.

    Smad Place can be backed at 12s NRNB. There is nothing obvious that will compete for the lead (Ruby won’t risk what happened at Kempton happening again). He’s a fine reliable jumper (touch wood) and he stays every yard. I’d be surprised if he’s not still leading and travelling strongly 3 out, and even if Vautour is sitting behind pulling double, there’ll be plenty still doubting he can last home and Smad is likely to be trading much shorter than 12s.

    #1231666
    TomBarkley87
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    Here’s another one for those who like to trade, or at least, don’t mind the occasional dabble.

    Smad Place can be backed at 12s NRNB. There is nothing obvious that will compete for the lead (Ruby won’t risk what happened at Kempton happening again). He’s a fine reliable jumper (touch wood) and he stays every yard. I’d be surprised if he’s not still leading and travelling strongly 3 out, and even if Vautour is sitting behind pulling double, there’ll be plenty still doubting he can last home and Smad is likely to be trading much shorter than 12s.

    Do you think he has the necessary improvement in him Joe? Ratings-wise he’s ran three very similar races at the top level this season and still probably finds himself around half a stone shy. Has he not his peak? :unsure: For me he doesn’t even place.

    #1231670
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    I think he’s well up to it, Boz, well up to it. He could be raised to 170 or even 171 after Saturday. Don Cossack is top rated at 175, and I’ll guarantee, Smad Place’s ability to find a rhythm in front is a precious advantage in a Gold Cup, worth 5lb to 7lb in my view.

    Like Cue Card, this will be his peak season with the breathing op still relatively new and working well touch wood. The figures back that up with two of his last 3 RPRs at 173, 10lbs ahead of anything he’s ever done.

    If Vautour wasn’t in this race I’d be smashing into Smad like this was the last horse race ever run. At least I know I get the Exacta up this year, too!

    #1231671
    TomBarkley87
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    I think he’s well up to it, Boz, well up to it. He could be raised to 170 or even 171 after Saturday. Don Cossack is top rated at 175, and I’ll guarantee, Smad Place’s ability to find a rhythm in front is a precious advantage in a Gold Cup, worth 5lb to 7lb in my view.

    Like Cue Card, this will be his peak season with the breathing op still relatively new and working well touch wood. The figures back that up with two of his last 3 RPRs at 173, 10lbs ahead of anything he’s ever done.

    If Vautour wasn’t in this race I’d be smashing into Smad like this was the last horse race ever run. At least I know I get the Exacta up this year, too!

    I see him getting raised just 1lb for Saturday, visually impressive though it was. It just seems to me as though your old mate Cue Card’s come on for each run he’s had this season, whereas Smad’s ran 168-168-169(to me) in his last three. I love his free-wheeling frontrunning ways, he’s an admirable horse. I just get the feeling he’ll come up short in what we’ve all already said is a vintage year. Good luck all the same if you’re looking at him to cover Vautour, don’t think you’ll need to if you ask me ;-)

    #1231815
    LD73
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    Just don’t see Smad Place being good enough to get near a place unless the heavens open and it ends up at least soft – he was getting weight from a horse (that had beaten him in all previous meetings) but who this year is being laid out specifically for the Grand National in a race run on heavy ground, neither of them were good enough to get within hailing distance in last year’s GC and the common consensus is that this year’s renewal is even deeper talent wise.

    Yes the front running tactics have paid dividends this season (on testing ground) but on likely better ground and (assuming he runs) Vautour will front run (if they are as confident in his ability to stay why change his normal tactics) and he is also a slicker jumper than Smad Place.

    With the exception of the journeyman First Lieutenant, his Hennessy win whilst visually impressive does not stand up to much scrutiny form wise – out of the two engagements at the Festival the Gold Cup is the right race distance wise but for me he would be an ideal candidate for an Irish Grand National over 3m4f where nine time out of ten you will be running on soft ground, which he reveals in.

    Good luck if you have taken an ew position on him but you will need an awful lot of things to go wrong with a number of his rivals or have a hidden talent for rain dancing in order to collect.

    #1231821
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    LD, where I’d really like to see SP is in the National. What a sight he’d be, and what a bet: jumps and stays.

    I just read Ben Aitken’s piece on Smad Place, and I can’t find anyone else who’s as enthusiastic as I am about his place chances. All seem to have forgotten that this horse had the same op that transformed Cue Card.

    Anyway, March 18th will tell the tale, but I can’t stress enough the advantage a horse like Smad Place has as a neat and confident jumper who enjoys being in front and in a rhythm. The energy savings are enormous, as he’s shown at the end of his Hennessy and Betbright. In those conditions, any winner is entitled to come home very tired. He finished the Hennessy strongly, though was tiring a bit up the hill on Saturday.

    He was obviously enjoying himself hugely out in front on Saturday too, and I’d happily forgive him any shortfall of a few pounds in the ratings.

    #1231825
    LD73
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    Steep – I agree that Aintree would be right up his alley but if I remember rightly, King was asked after his Hennessy win about that and he answered somewhere along the lines of his owners would string him up if he ever made an entry for him, sad as I think the changes made over the years suit the better class horses much more now although trying to make all would still be a mighty task in of itself.

    If it (GC) came up proper soft it would inconvenience (blunt) the more ‘speedier’ type horses a lot more and bring them all closer together where the emphasis would be much more on stamina especially up that energy sapping hill – those are the only conditions where I can see him being a player at the business end.

    #1232035
    parro88
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    I have a feeling we are going to see something special in this year’s gold cup from the mighty vautour, his effort in the king George on a track that doesn’t play to his strengths and his first effort over 3 miles, was a fantastic one. Cheltenham is his playground, like kempton was kauto stars!aslong as the ground has the word ‘good’ in the description a new star will be born. Any people questioning if he will stay, I’m sure people said the same on kauto stars first attempts over a staying trip!

    #1232065
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Kauto Star settled far better than Vautour and didn’t need to race prominently.
    Vautour might win the Gold Cup if settling better than has in the past.

    Value Is Everything
    #1232098
    parro88
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    I was probably a bit young when kauto was in his pomp so fair play, but I think smad place being in the field will help him settle better,I just think this horse is a superstar and so too do mullins and Walsh,also nicholls has come out and said he’d love to train vautour for GC,who better judge than him with his previous staying chasers.dont get me wrong in the past I have always looked at stamina more in the GC as in my time I have seen high class plodders like Lord Windermere and synchronised win but watching coneygree last year with suitable ground conditions and jumping and travelling the way he did, makes me think if a horse is that good then the cream will always rise to the top! Alot is made of the extra distance in gold cup but if a horse is in such a rhythm like vautour probs will be,I think it can be over played!

    #1232109
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 4133

    Parro88 – If it was anywhere else but Cheltenham then the stamina question probably isn’t as relevant but if you look back over the years, there have been a host of great 3m chasers that have been consistently found out by the extra 2f up that hill.

    I have mention in other posts the likes of One Man (dual KG winner & Hennessy winner over GC distance who consistently hit the proverbial wall at the second last in his two GC attempts), Florida Pearl (RSA, KG and 4 time Irish Gold Cup winner who was outstayed when twice placed in GC) and Wayward Lad (three time KG winner and twice placed in GC which were notably for his stamina reserves running out after the last especially against Dawn Run in 1986).

    The truth is that the question of whether Vautour stays or not will only be answered when he turns for home and Ruby asks him with two to go in this year’s GC – personally, a horse with that much natural speed normally wouldn’t also have the required stamina but there have been exceptions with Kauto Star (won from 2m to 3m2f) & Desert Orchid (who won from 2m to 3m5f).

    I see the race being run in a similar style to last year and that puts more emphasis on stamina and I believe there are other horses in the race that will be better suited to that type of attritional race than he will – if thoses horses are all with him turning for home, I just don’t see him being able to get down and dirty to outstay them.

    #1232113
    parro88
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    • Total Posts 12

    Yeah they are all very fair points and you could well be right, obviously you have more knowledge historically than me, I just hope your wrong!Haha.I suppose it’s easy to get carried away with the manner of his JLT win last year, I mean visually it was just to die for wasn’t it.i think cue card is being slightly overlooked generally even though he’s been the best staying chaser this season and if I was to have a saver it would be on him, as the other 3 main protagonists have too many questions to answer djakadam (2 falls out of 3 at Cheltenham) Don cossack (2 poor runs at festival) Don poli (too slow, I think he could win an average renewal but not one with this strength in depth)

    #1232124
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 4133

    Don’t get me wrong, I think he is the most naturally talented horse in the race by a country mile and also the best jumper – the JLT was the most impressive jumping performance at Cheltenham full stop but we are talking about another 6f to race.

    That being said if he makes the same kind of improvement from Christmas to March as he did last year, the ground is no worse than good and he jumps like he did in the JLT there will be no excuses for him – can’t see them changing the front running tactics unless Smad Place goes off at a silly pace.

    I still have not lost faith in Djakadam, yes it was unfortunate he hit the deck but it may just be a blessing in disguise not to have had a real hard slog in heavy ground 6 weeks before the big day – he will be going into the race a fresh horse and strangely enough I am not worried about his jumping even though he has only completed once in three starts at the track.

    Funny enough he will now be trying to emmulate Dawn Run who also fell in the same corresponding race before winning the Gold Cup on her next start – the only negative I can see with him is that he is unlikely to have Ruby on board but that will mean he is likely to start at a bigger price than he is quoted at now.

    #1232130
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    LD, Mullins has already said that Vautour will be dropped in. Plans can change, but I’d have thought they’d be pleased Smad Place is running. He can go fast enough for long enough to tow Ruby along and, touch wood, is a reliable enough jumper not to carry the risk of bringing anything down.

    One potential drawback, is that SP jumped noticeably to his right at a few fences on Saturday (he’d done the same at Newbury). Those behind tend to follow the track of the leader, and Vautour can be so extravagant at times, that a late slew to the right might just catch him out. Perhaps in such circumstances Ruby would choose to go past early.

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