2012 Gold Cup

Are those ratings for performances at 3 miles or for performances over the Gold Cup trip? You have omitted Flyingbolt who was capable of incredible performances over a range of distances and would push down everything bar Himself a place.

do you guys thnik grand crus will run, should be interesting race f he does, along with midnight chase, whome seems to love cheltenham

vf

do you guys thnik grand crus will run, should be interesting race f he does, along with midnight chase, whome seems to love cheltenham

vf

Midnight Chase has absolutely no chance. He won an awful trial in which all the main percieved protagonists fell apart and failed to deliver. I’d be amazed if he finished within 20-25 lengths of the winner.

Only 2 stone between Arkle and Long Run? Himself could have given The French Horse 3 stone and beaten him by a distance

Based upon what? A romantic idea? No one is disputing the merits of Arkle even though i’ve never seen him (Hell i wasn’t born when Dessert Orchid was winning) but do you not think you are being a little hyperbolic? We get it, Arkle is considered the undisputed best chaser of all time. Doesn’t mean we need endless "But Arkle was soooooo superior" everytime ratings are discussed. It doesn’t achieve anything and is frankly annoying.

do you guys thnik grand crus will run, should be interesting race f he does, along with midnight chase, whome seems to love cheltenham

vf

Midnight Chase has absolutely no chance. He won an awful trial in which all the main percieved protagonists fell apart and failed to deliver. I’d be amazed if he finished within 20-25 lengths of the winner.

Only 2 stone between Arkle and Long Run? Himself could have given The French Horse 3 stone and beaten him by a distance

Based upon what? A romantic idea? No one is disputing the merits of Arkle even though i’ve never seen him (Hell i wasn’t born when Dessert Orchid was winning) but do you not think you are being a little hyperbolic? We get it, Arkle is considered the undisputed best chaser of all time. Doesn’t mean we need endless "But Arkle was soooooo superior" everytime ratings are discussed. It doesn’t achieve anything and is frankly annoying.

I was lucky enought to see "Himself" in the flesh the day he broke the course record at Sandown by 17 seconds, a record that has never been neared, never mind beaten.
The day before the race Arkle was taken for a light canter on the track but took it into his mind to try to race the express treain on the railway side of the course. He bolted on his work rider and kept pace with the train the entire length of the back straight. Tom Dreaper considered withdrawing the horse from the next days race but didn’t want to dissapoint the crowds.
Arkle was led by Mill House on the first circuit but grabbed the bit on the way up the hill on the first circuit to go past the stands in the lead. Having realised the race wasn’t over he let Mill House past shortly after the " winning post" only to cruise past the same horse on the bend approaching the pond fence. It looked like Frankel passing the field on the bend at Ascot as a 2-Y-Old. He went on to win in a hack canter and Mill House was a hell of a horse and was getting lumps of weight off Arkle. The horse was not a normal horse, he was a freak of nature, the reincarnation of Kinscem if there ever was one

Go watch the race for yourself on you tube

All very fabulous, and again, no one disputes Arkle and his ability or that he stands at the top of the tree, but again it feels like people try too hard to tell how you exceptional he was. Frankel is the best Flat horse i have ever seen, it doesn’t mean i wish to endlessly rant and rave when a minor point arises in regards to someone "questioning" something.

I’ve seen some of his highlights, but it’s difficult to really mean anything to me. I will never have any affliation or link to Arkle (which for the purpose of analysis probably helps).

As for this Gold Cup, i think Long Run is the likely winner. I think Kauto Star is a better horse, but age and conditions will be really difficult for Kauto Star to overcome. As much as i want him to win, i think Long Run has to be considered the most likely winner.

All very fabulous, and again, no one disputes Arkle and his ability or that he stands at the top of the tree, but again it feels like people try too hard to tell how you exceptional he was. Frankel is the best Flat horse i have ever seen, it doesn’t mean i wish to endlessly rant and rave when a minor point arises in regards to someone "questioning" something.

I’ve seen some of his highlights, but it’s difficult to really mean anything to me. I will never have any affliation or link to Arkle (which for the purpose of analysis probably helps).

George Best or Lionel Messi ?

Two greats but from different era’s – simply cannot prove who is the best. Different training methods, pitches, diets, balls, the list goes on. The same with the horses. Leave it at that.

One of our members asked for my thoughts on The Gold Cup. I posted my current thoughts in my own thread but felt I might be better to add it to the Gold Cup thread

For what it’s worth……..

The Gold Cup: This is the first time for years that I’ve had to think about who to back in this race, I just lumped on Denman in the previous three years, why would I oppose The Tank?
For 2012 Quito De La Roque currently my first choice from the entries, with reservations, my original fancy, Royal De La Thinte, hasn’t run since picking up a knock behind Quito last season.
I feel Cheltenham will bring out the best in Quito De La Roque, one thing’s for sure no horse will come up the hill better at the end of 3m2f. This is on the assumption that he can’t possibly have run anywhere near his true form in The Lexus, the proximity of Roberto Goldbeck surely proves that. I feel his odds will plummet after The Hennessey.

I’m not put off by Grand Crus’s lack of experience, he was very impressive in defeat in last year’s World Hurdle, I’m also convinced this year’s Gold Cup will be an easier race to win than next year’s and anything can happen in the next twelve months tohorse currently in the very best of health. Add to that the fact that in general horses recover better from a Gold Cup than they do from an RSA and I can see him going for the main prize.

Quel Esprit has the talent and provided his jumping holds up he’ll surely be there or thereabouts, he’s a lot better jumper than the bare bones of his form lines would suggest.

Then there’s Long Run, a horse I’ve never rated anywhere nearly as high as many others. I feel he won a poor Gold Cup in 2011, Denman was a shadow of his real self, Kauto Star had a poor season and has never really convinced at Cheltenham despite his record, Imperial Commander and Pandorama ran no sort of race and Weird Al broke a blood vessel. As for his amateur jockey, I’ve nothing against amateurs, Nina Carberry, Katie Walsh, Robbie MacNamara and Derek O’Connor are better than most professionals but Mr Waley-Cohen is a good few pounds below these but he knows the horse and I feel critisism of his riding mainly comes from those who can see the hype bubble starting to leak, if not yet fully burst.
Weird Al could spring a surprise if putting his best hoof forward and I wouldn’t rule out Midnight Chase who finished last year’s race with badly cut legs and a lump of birch still stuck in one leg. He loves the course, has had an easier preparation that last year and Gold Cups have been won by worse horses in the past than him.
Sadly, I can’t see Kauto Star defying the years at a course he clearly doesn’t like.

His Cheltenham record is Ran 6 Won 2 33%
Elsewhere his Chase record is Ran 24 W 17 approx 69%

As you can see his record away from Cheltenham is over twice as good as it is at Prestbury Park

Cheltenham

Fell (Newmill)
Won (Bt Exotic Dancer)
2nd (Denman, KS jumped badly)
Won (Bt sick Denman)
Fell (Imperial Commander)
3rd (Long Run, KS Jumped badly once again)

He won his Gold Cups insprite of the course, that’s why so many rate him so highly

Great write up by Gary Nutting on the chances of Quito De la Roque on At the Races new Cheltenham Microsite. Worth a look if anyone interested.

Yes, said didn’t realise how much the defeat of Sizing Europe took out of him. Hopefully, mops up in the Hennessy, and his price crashes. On at 33s, 25s, 20s and 16!

Fingers crossed!