The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Derby 2012

Home Forums Big Races – Discussion Derby 2012

Viewing 17 posts - 86 through 102 (of 188 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #405923
    runandskip
    Member
    • Total Posts 412

    this derby has the winners of the 2,000 guineas,dante,chester vase,dee stakes so its as good as it can be but it just feels too early in the season nowadays

    #405924
    Avatar photoGhost of Rob V
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1412

    This year’s Derby doesn’t look as bad as the ones in 1983 (Teenoso) and 1996 (Shaamit).

    #405938
    Avatar photorich1985
    Member
    • Total Posts 1217

    Hurdy, we actually agree on something! Bonfire’s form looks a whole lot stronger to me, with Camelot’s 2000 Guineas taking some knocks already. Although Epsom is a very idiosyncratic track, and a few fancied horses haven’t taken to it in recent years I feel Bonfire is quite versatile and should appreciate the likely fast ground. I took 6s on him last week after my PH ante post bet went belly up which now looks rather good.

    Can’t wait for this weekend, it should be amazing.

    #405942
    Hammy
    Member
    • Total Posts 516

    On a quiet road leading out of Newmarket there is an unmarked grave at a crossroads. It is said to be the grave of a gypsy boy. It’s known locally simply as ‘Boy’s Grave’.

    The story goes that this gypsy boy was left in charge of a flock of sheep. He is said to have counted the sheep one evening and found that he had lost one. They say that such was his shame that he hung himself on a nearby tree. In an added twist of irony the legend tells that he had actually miscounted the sheep and taken his life needlessly.

    … Aaanyway… nobody ever sees how they get there, but there are always fresh flowers on his grave. And here’s the important part: another legend tells that on the morn of the Derby the flowers on the Boy’s grave are always the same as the winning Derby horse.

    A good few years back I had a big antepost punt on Luca Cumani’s Highrise. I took 25’s but in the event it returned a whopping 20/1 winner anyway.

    …there were yellow flowers on the gypsy’s grave that morning.

    I will report the flower colours on the morning of the Blue Riband event on the forum, so you can stop beating yourselve’s up over the likely winner now. :D

    #405944
    Avatar photophil walker
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1374

    I’d add horses like Benny the Dip and Sir Percy as bad Derby winners, any more to add to the list guys?

    #405947
    deeman
    Member
    • Total Posts 103

    Extremely weak Derby field
    +
    Camelot, one of the most impressive Derby contenders of recent times
    =
    Camelot win by 5 lengths

    :D :D

    DEEMAN

    #405948
    Peruvian Chief
    Member
    • Total Posts 1931

    Sorry Sir Michael – North Light and Kris Kin.

    #405957
    Avatar photoPants
    Participant
    • Total Posts 647

    Camelot now ridiculously short, he’s probably the most likely winner but I’m in the Bonfire camp, took 8/1 Ladbrokes were offering last week, very happy with that.

    #405960
    Avatar photorich1985
    Member
    • Total Posts 1217

    Camelot now ridiculously short, he’s probably the most likely winner but I’m in the Bonfire camp, took 8/1 Ladbrokes were offering last week, very happy with that.

    Good work, Pants.

    #405961
    Peruvian Chief
    Member
    • Total Posts 1931

    This is definately a no bet. I no-bet Authorized (to my cost) and he was a better price and had better form.

    I think and hope Camelot will hack up on his way to the Eclipse to meet a certain Juddmonte colt, and hopefully last seasons UK&Ire Champion 10f horse So You Think.

    That would be HAPPY DAYS my friends i’m sure you’ll agree.

    #405965
    Avatar photoHimself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    Very few Derbys are packed with real overall quality.

    It is much easier to pin point the better Derby winners from the average ones. Even some of the greatest winners of the race beat what were essentially, mediocre fields. Sea Bird, Nijinsky and Mill Reef are three outstanding colts who saw off colts ( apart from one or two exceptions ) of much lesser ability.

    I think ( and hope ) Camelot will prove one of the better winners.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #405970
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 9338

    Hammy; I like that story. Please report the colour as early as possible as I’m going to Southwell early on Saturday for the [don’t laugh] Morris dancing…..

    #405974
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    I’d add horses like Benny the Dip and Sir Percy as bad Derby winners, any more to add to the list guys?

    Both of those had better fields than the 2010 renewal. Its not just about the winner. Workforce was a very good winner of a very bad Derby. There is a good reason he was sold to Japan.

    #405975
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33232

    We have a 2000 Guineas winner who is bred to be quite a bit better at a mile and a half. One who could even go on to the "Triple Crown". So there’s going to be a lot of hype over

    Camalot

    . This hype has led to most, if not all the others being far less talked about. So people are going to think it is a poor quality Derby. Fair enough, it isn’t great on paper, even Camalot’s form is (as it stands at the moment) not that far in front of his rivals. There are reasons to believe several could improve to make 2012 a good quality Derby.
    The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee means Camalot or

    Imperial Monarch

    would be fitting winners. With

    bonfire

    s being lit the length and breadth of Britain, so would the "King’s Clear" second favourite. I believe both Bonfire and Imperial Monarch have been under rated.

    Imperial Monarch

    is bred to either win or be second. From the Northern Dancer sire line and Mill Reef female line of so many of our top horses. By one Derby winner (Galileo), with another as a dam’s sire, Slip Anchor who was by another Shirley Heights, who was by yet another in Mill Reef. Imperial Monarch’s dam Ionian Sea is a half sister to Derby seconds Blue Stag and (French Derby) Oscar. She herself has also produced Derby second The Great Gatsby who was by Galileo’s sire Saddlers Wells, who’s by Northern Dancer. Imperial Monarch should run well if equally effective on a firm surface.
    On only his second start, Imperial Monarch took a wide path at Sandown. Something that has been done often on soft ground. But Joseph took him right around the outside of the turn, can’t remember seeing one go quite that wide. Making up around 8 lengths in the straight to beat Trust Worthy by 1 3/4 lengths. Surely value for more. That horse went on to frank the form, winning the listed Fairway Stakes.

    Value Is Everything
    #405977
    Avatar photoTriptych
    Participant
    • Total Posts 17033

    On a quiet road leading out of Newmarket there is an unmarked grave at a crossroads. It is said to be the grave of a gypsy boy. It’s known locally simply as ‘Boy’s Grave’.

    The story goes that this gypsy boy was left in charge of a flock of sheep. He is said to have counted the sheep one evening and found that he had lost one. They say that such was his shame that he hung himself on a nearby tree. In an added twist of irony the legend tells that he had actually miscounted the sheep and taken his life needlessly.

    … Aaanyway… nobody ever sees how they get there, but there are always fresh flowers on his grave. And here’s the important part: another legend tells that on the morn of the Derby the flowers on the Boy’s grave are always the same as the winning Derby horse.

    A good few years back I had a big antepost punt on Luca Cumani’s Highrise. I took 25’s but in the event it returned a whopping 20/1 winner anyway.

    …there were yellow flowers on the gypsy’s grave that morning.

    I will report the flower colours on the morning of the Blue Riband event on the forum, so you can stop beating yourselve’s up over the likely winner now. :D

    Hammy, where is the Gypsy Boy’s grave is it Rowley Mile or July Course part of HQ would like to stop and pay a respect Saturday week, especially if the flowers turn out to be right again, sends a shiver down your spine.
    Hoping that Camelot will do what he says on the packet with a couple of little ‘savers’ on Main Sequence and Imperial Monarch.
    I thought he was impressive at HQ on 2,000 Guineas Day especially as stable mate Power beaten 37 lengths bolted up at the Curragh on Saturday.
    Did Aiden give Power a bit of training on the racecourse on Guineas Day and was the Irish equivalent always the plan for him, because he wouldn’t have wanted Power to beat Camelot would he as he now has the perfect scenario of a UK 2,000 Winner, an Irish 2,000 Guineas Winner and a probable Derby Winner in Camelot, which all bodes well for their value at stud…job done :wink:

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #405984
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    Frederico Tesio held that the timing of the Derby was sacrosanct. It allows us to compare different generations in terms of their maturity to be able to cope with the sternest test of a horse’s confirmation and ability over 12 furlongs. Hence, all Derby winners are given a chance at stud because they have proved themselves to be both precocious and possessed of stamina. He observed that 3 generations is the longest continuous line of sires. This helps to ensure that the breed does not become too one-dimensional.

    These are;
    Spearmint-Spion Kop-Felstead
    Mill Reef-Shirley Heights-Slip Anchor

    If trainers do not aim their best middle distance 3yo horses at the Derby, it can only be down to laziness on their part.

    #405988
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    On a quiet road leading out of Newmarket there is an unmarked grave at a crossroads. It is said to be the grave of a gypsy boy. It’s known locally simply as ‘Boy’s Grave’.

    The story goes that this gypsy boy was left in charge of a flock of sheep. He is said to have counted the sheep one evening and found that he had lost one. They say that such was his shame that he hung himself on a nearby tree. In an added twist of irony the legend tells that he had actually miscounted the sheep and taken his life needlessly.

    … Aaanyway… nobody ever sees how they get there, but there are always fresh flowers on his grave. And here’s the important part: another legend tells that on the morn of the Derby the flowers on the Boy’s grave are always the same as the winning Derby horse.

    A good few years back I had a big antepost punt on Luca Cumani’s Highrise. I took 25’s but in the event it returned a whopping 20/1 winner anyway.

    …there were yellow flowers on the gypsy’s grave that morning.

    I will report the flower colours on the morning of the Blue Riband event on the forum, so you can stop beating yourselve’s up over the likely winner now. :D

    Hammy, where is the Gypsy Boy’s grave is it Rowley Mile or July Course part of HQ would like to stop and pay a respect Saturday week, especially if the flowers turn out to be right again, sends a shiver down your spine.
    Hoping that Camelot will do what he says on the packet with a couple of little ‘savers’ on Main Sequence and Imperial Monarch.
    I thought he was impressive at HQ on 2,000 Guineas Day especially as stable mate Power beaten 37 lengths bolted up at the Curragh on Saturday.
    Did Aiden give Power a bit of training on the racecourse on Guineas Day and was the Irish equivalent always the plan for him, because he wouldn’t have wanted Power to beat Camelot would he as he now has the perfect scenario of a UK 2,000 Winner, an Irish 2,000 Guineas Winner and a probable Derby Winner in Camelot, which all bodes well for their value at stud…job done :wink:

    The Boy’s Grave is on the old A45 between Newmarket and Kentford. There was much amusement many years ago in the town when Bill O’Gorman had a Derby runner and him allegedly going up to check. Mind Bill did regard 7f as a stayer’s trip.

Viewing 17 posts - 86 through 102 (of 188 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.