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Rip Van Winkle had his limits exposed by Sea the Stars in the Eclipse when he failed to quicken at the vital time. It’s hard to judge if he improved because he got better from there on in or it was simply the drop back to the mile but I’m pretty confident it was the latter.
Improved? You don’t seriously think that his performance in the Sussex was better than his effort at Sandown. That is mind boggling. A
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to the left of an animal’s name in the formbook does not automatically make it that horse’s best run.
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Improved? You don’t seriously think that his performance in the Sussex was better than his effort at Sandown. That is mind boggling. A
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to the left of an animal’s name in the formbook does not automatically make it that horse’s best run.
Neither does a non-staying 2nd to Sea The Stars!
RVW undoubtedly improved in the Sussex where he beat good horses pointless, and will no doubt improve again in the BC Classic.Neither does a non-staying 2nd to Sea The Stars!
RVW undoubtedly improved in the Sussex where he beat good horses pointless, and will no doubt improve again in the BC Classic.So beating Paco Boy by 2 and half lengths is "undoubtedly" an improvement on beating Conduit by 3 and a half? Assuming PB ran to his best of around 129 and Conduit ran a couple of pounds below his (maybe 127) you get a similar
level of form from RVW on both starts.Non-staying second
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Couple of pounds?
I’ve posted this before but obviously it wasn’t taken in. Let’s look at the Eclipse and the King George. In the latter Conduit beats Alwaary (rpr 113) by four and a quarter lengths. In the former he beats Cima De Triomphe (rpr 116) by 5L. If anything it could be argued that the Eclipse was the better run by Conduit.
But some members on here seem more interested in a horse’s form figures than the actual content of the form. I note some serious Denman doubters in the Hennessy thread even though without the brilliant Kauto Star strutting his stuff Denman would be a dual Gold Cup winner.
CONTENT OVER FIGURES.
Bob Baffert says the track is playing more like dirt this year due to it being a year older and the ammount of water they’re putting on it.
The Americans ain’t making much out of it though becuase they love a good excuse.
Improved? You don’t seriously think that his performance in the Sussex was better than his effort at Sandown. That is mind boggling. A
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to the left of an animal’s name in the formbook does not automatically make it that horse’s best run.
Neither does a non-staying 2nd to Sea The Stars!
RVW undoubtedly improved in the Sussex where he beat good horses pointless, and will no doubt improve again in the BC Classic.All the evidence is that he stays 1 mile 2 furlongs comfortably!! Being beaten by a better horse does not mean not staying. Not staying in the 1 mile 2 event means would mean not having a hope of being seen in something like the derby, no matter how slowly it was run. It would mean being reeled in by the pack in the sandown event and it would mean probably not being bred to stay. How many Gallileos fail to get 10 furlongs?? It actually defies pretty much all logic that he is incapable of staying this distance. He was actually ultra impressive for me in running against STS.
However….in spite of all of that. We keep hearing he has loads of problems. These could in theory be the reason why we have some pretty average performances by him, why when he came to beat STS, he couldnt pass him and why he failed to really excite many of us in wining the QE.
Overall, if he were a short price, he should be a lay because he is clearly a little on the brittle side. Just because the europeans won this last year, we shouldnt just assume that normal service wont resume here, in spite of the surface.
SHL
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SHL
Were Dubawi or Hawk Wing ‘not seen’ or ‘reeled in by the pack’ in the Derby?
Is this ‘non staying’ RVW over 10f the same RVW that stormed home in the final furlong of his only try at 12f? If STS had pulled out of the Eclipse and RVW had won by 4l would you still say he didn’t stay? He stays every yard of 10f and more
O’Brien is giving it the talk about RVW’s foot injury so the market on the exchange is suspended !
Jimmy Fortune must be gutted
Jocked off Raven’s Pass and Donativum last year, and this year he loses the rides on Rainbow View, Dar Re Mi and Pounced
SHL
Were Dubawi or Hawk Wing ‘not seen’ or ‘reeled in by the pack’ in the Derby?
Eh… Are we referring to the eclipse winner Hawk Wing or the goldolphin trained never tried over 10 furlong Dubawi as ultimate proof of strong finishing Derby beaten horses who clearly dont stay 10 furlong or are these two other horses I should know about
SHL
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Duplicate post
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FFS!
Dubawi Ran a RPR of 116 when 3rd in the Derby, his best rating over 1m being 12lbs higher. Hawk Wing ran a 127 when 2nd in the Derby, his best 1m rating being 7lb higher. Go figure!
After his run in the Eclipse, RVW was dropped back to Im (twice), swerving such races as The Juddmonte International and The Champion Stakes, and not reverting to 10f until a much lesser test came along i.e. Santa Anita.
On Sep 25th ,almost 3 months after his Eclipse run,
J Murtagh was quoted thus:
"Now knowing him I think he’s a horse that likes to use that high cruising gear. I would say a mile is good for him and maybe, later in the campaign, he might get a mile and a quarter".
NowI don’t think he stayed
, –
his jockey doesn’t think he stayed
, and (judged on his placing)
his trainer doesn’t think he stayed
. Trouble is, there are too many on here who know far better.
Crazy post draws
Goldikova gets gate 11 of 11 (You really want a low draw to get round quick on the first turn)
Unsuprisingly Zensational gets stall 1 which will play to his speed-ball tactics no end.
It’s a fix
Fist,
I’m a little confused.
You seem to be resigned to the fact you cant back RVW at the US Tote price?
Why?
FFS!
Dubawi Ran a RPR of 116 when 3rd in the Derby, his best rating over 1m being 12lbs higher. Hawk Wing ran a 127 when 2nd in the Derby, his best 1m rating being 7lb higher. Go figure!
After his run in the Eclipse, RVW was dropped back to Im (twice), swerving such races as The Juddmonte International and The Champion Stakes, and not reverting to 10f until a much lesser test came along i.e. Santa Anita.
On Sep 25th ,almost 3 months after his Eclipse run,
J Murtagh was quoted thus:
"Now knowing him I think he’s a horse that likes to use that high cruising gear. I would say a mile is good for him and maybe, later in the campaign, he might get a mile and a quarter".
NowI don’t think he stayed
, –
his jockey doesn’t think he stayed
, and (judged on his placing)
his trainer doesn’t think he stayed
. Trouble is, there are too many on here who know far better.
Including you.
Anyway, moving on….
Morning line odds, unsuprisingly, have Zenyatta at 5/2 with RVW 2nd favourite at 7/2
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